AT4W: Green Lantern #23.1

Featuring a relic of a bygone age… and by that I mean the New 52.

If you’re having trouble watching this video on the Screenwave player, you can view it on YouTube here.

About Linkara

Atop the Fourth Wall is a show about bad comic books. Linkara finds the surreal and the stupid and breaks them down page by page. You'll know why they're idiotic and how they can be improved.

49 comments

  1. KamenRiderHellhound

    WOW…. this is BEYOND fucking retarded … seriously… this is why I stick to Marvel and Dark Horse, less bullshit that retcons EVERYTHING in their mythos … to THIS LEVEL!

    • That is something I never understood about DC. Although I can understand it for retcons of older lesser known characters, but how often does DC actually retcon everything within the primary universe at the time such as the New 52. Come to think about it, I think DC actually has more reboots than an other comic out there even more than Marvel.

  2. Actually, that moving cover looked kinda cool. *virtual shrug* I laughed at the comic’s gravity explanation though. I can’t wait for another Youngblood video. Oh, yes. 😀

  3. JohnnyHardcastle

    Rubbish like this the reason why Scott Snyder’s Batman and Brian Azzarello’s Wonder Woman are the only DC titles I read now. Not only is Relic’s back story a massive retcon that pisses on what Geoff Johns did with Green Lantern, but his origins are a rip off of Marvel’s Elders of the Universe.

    Spoilers for Endgame:
    Joker isn’t a centuries old ghost/spirit. He has exposed to the same stuff that made Vandall Savage immortal (it was undone at the end of the arc), and fake being centuries old to troll Batman.

    • I find Scott Snyder’s run of Batman to be the absolute worst. It changed the origin to have a more conspiracy theory bent and it changed a tragic villain into a crazy psychopath. That and ripping the Joker’s face off was just stupid.

      • Okay, to be clear it’s hard to say the joker’s origin is tragic in the first place because the idea is that he was probably lying in the first place in Killing Joke.

        “If I have to have a past, then I prefer it to be multiple choice.”

        I will admit though, Snyder’s Joker seems less mysterious than Alan Moore’s because of Zero Year saying Joker was already some kind of mass murdering master criminal before the transformation which I don’t like as much. Still mostly like his overall run though.

        • I think he means Snyder and Tynion’s reworked origin for Mr. Freeze

          • Oh, well in that case to be honest I don’t hate the reworking of Freeze’s origin either. TBH, the previous backstory with the either dead or diseased and comatose wife kind of left us stuck in what could be considered an annoying corner of melodrama. Cause logically speaking we’ve probably already seen every potential route they could do with that from the DCAU shows alone. At least this new “raging maniacal asshole” angle can give us something different for the character. That said, because they haven’t really done anything outside of that annual, I question why they bothered to do it in the first place. Which is also kind of annoying.

  4. 0:09 Linkara I couldn’t agree with you more on this. I think people focus so much of their attention on the villains, that I’m starting to think people don’t care about the hero’s anymore.

    It’s ok for Batman to be a moron in his own movie (Dark Knight Rises), Superman can reckless use his powers and everyone being ok with it (Man of Steel) But God help us all when Marvel decided to not give us a Fu Manchu stereotype with magic rings (Iron Man 3) Or people whining about Tony being the one you made Ultron and not Hank (Avenger: Age of Ultron)

    Despite how much they do a good job making the villains a threat, if their not more then 90% accurate to the comics people end up ranting how awful they think the movie is.

    • You do know that Dark Knight Rises is the best of the Noaln batman films right. Saying he is depicted as a moron in tit is stupid. Here is why takes deep breath. He is in a situation where someone who is m oore powerful has had the same training as him therefore knows the strategy he is going to use. Bascially the same way that Bane isn’t in the original comic the brainless moron that everyone thinks he is. H e uses the rogue gallery to tire ouyt Batman. Here he is emotional and physical cripples by having sex with someone before he goes out which we all know can be ophysically strenuous and having his mothers pearls stolen which would have memotional value to him as he still fears gaulty for his parent death as it was his own childhood terror that lead them to their deaths. Scodnly this is the firt time he has every fought someone who is physically up to his standard but also knows what tatics he will use and knows how he works therefore uses that to gain a advantage. Thirdly we see that batman being intelligent uses how bane fights and uses that against him to gain the advantage something that did happene int he nightfall storyline which if you had read you would have seen the obvious poararels to. People don’t like because they nloved the dark knight well I say well then kdark knight isn’t as good as dark knight rises and time will prove me right about that statement. Bokom

      • He was a moron.

        Tony from Iron Man 3 acted like a better detective then Batman ever was in DKR.

        -He was fooled by Catwoman not once but twice and still trusted her by the end of movie and runs off with her by the end.

        -He quiets being Batman for seven years after the end of The Dark Knight. Which is stupid. Batman would never do that

        • Batman wouldn’t stop being batman erm have you read the dark knight returns. He stops being batman then. He stopped being batman because him being batman turned Harvey dent into a monster and his love dead. Anyone would be hung up after that. Hew want a mroon, catwoman s someone he thought he knew how to use. He didn’t know she didn’t have a motive. Look we know from dark knight he knows how criminal’s think. Selina kyle thinks differently because all she wants is to get out that doesn’t make batman a moron just someone who thought he had the pull on cat woman when she was being pulled by someone who had goods on her. He runs off with her because he feell in lovew with her, there is obvious chemistry and you can tell when she betrays him she feels bad. This has been a catwoman batman dynamic fro the beginning that he wants to trust her because he loves her. Also better detective really tony stark used his technology to do what exsactly track down ben kingsley playing fictional mandarin. Where as batman uses his detective skills to find the biomb save his city and defeat bane. Yes better detective by half. Just admit it dark knight rises is the better movie me and you know it and everyone else does but they are too butthurt to admit it.

        • you are missing the point of the ending of the dark knight

          Bruce took the blame for the murders of Harvey dent

          he did this because he thought Harvey dent was a better symbol for hope than Batman

          so he sacrifice Batman as symbol to save what Harvey dent meant for people

          at the end of the dark knight, batman as a symbol is destroyed , it gets corrupter .. to continue to be Batman would only lead to inspire vigilantism and pointless acts of anarchy and hurt Gotham

          so Bruce instead try to focus himself into saving gotham economically as bruce wayen and spend does seven years developing this new clean nuclear reactor ..

    • It wasn’t about the Fu Manchu, it was about the fact that the villain we got was boring, he was the weakest part of the story and not at all helped the story along.

      From what i did understand Iron Man 3 was about Tony dealing with his fears and everything, but how did this human livingroom-radiator tie into that?
      Why is it that a lot of interesting stuff that could have happened with the real Mandarin, they could have just changed a few things about him if him being asian would have been such a big problem, not to mention that magic is still banned from the Marvel cinematic universe, basically crippling their stories, gets cut for: Stole your girlfriend from you, but not really.

      Superheroes are important but the villain is just as important, he/she adds a lot to the story if done well but can be just as much of a hinderance to the story if done poorly.

      There should be more to this movie and a lot of others, if you want a hero to shine brightly they need something that shows just how good they are yet the villains we often got in the last few years didn’t provide that.

  5. Boring comics I suppose are worst kind of review material, since no matter how much one can add to it. It doesn’t change dullness it has in it.

    After continually following this site producers I’ve come to appreciate the bad campy and hysterical stories.

    Also this comic perpetuates my notion that better graphics can come at the expense of quality, storytelling, pacing, character, and in the case of games, gameplay.

  6. Ugh, I actually remember these. I bought the Batman ones with Riddler and Joker because those are two of my favorite characters. I had pretty much the same reaction – What the smeg is up with the numbering, and if they’re hijacking the cover, why isn’t this more about them? To quote paraphrase Johnny Dangerously, it would be cool if they did it once… once. When it’s on every cover, the cool factor kind of goes out the door.

  7. Yeah, theirs is a fixation of people liking the villains more than the heroes. A good example is something I’ve read yesterday about people thinking that The Joker was the real hero in The Dark Knight, and the only thing I’m thinking of is that Barney Stinson from How I Met Your Mother wrote that on his blog. Seriously, people, The Joker was killing people for fun, and Batman was stopping him from killing more people. Point goes to Batman, no exceptions.

    1:36- Yeah, who’s idea was it for The Joker to cut off his own face and staple it back on? At least I was relieved that they didn’t do that for DC’s movie universe in Suicide Squad.

    Say what you will about Batman: Arkham Origins (the video game advertised on the back of the comic), but you gotta agree that it’s much better than this comic.

    I also love the multiple Lantern Corps in the DC Universe. BTW, Carol Ferris in the Green Lantern movie also brought up the fact that Hal Jordan was chosen by Abin Sur’s because of his courage, and that’s one of the reasons why I like that movie while mostly everyone else doesn’t.

    13:36- Yeah, I still remember that Star Trek TNG episode, and the Warp 5 speed limit unless for emergencies thing. I haven’t heard that they ignored that episode after TNG ended, but I’m glad they did, because it’s a bit stupid.

    If anyone is interested in a GOOD origin story told in caption boxes and no dialogue, then I highly recommend the Batman story “The Man Who Falls,” which was one of the influences behind Batman Begins.

    Is it just me, or does Relic’s spacesuit look like the Ant-Man suit from the Marvel Cinematic Universe?

    I never heard of Relic before this review, and after this, I think I see why. Have fun next week with the first issue of Team Youngblood.

  8. Any chance that the limited light supply was only in Relic’s universe, and the New 52 or whatever main universe now was hadn’t that problem? No? I was afraid of that…

  9. “Wouldn’t that mean just existing in the first place was using up this Well?”

    I imagine that was their attempt to explain Entropy. So, yes. May be silly, but seems at least internally consistent.

  10. A decimal system? REALLY!?!?!

    They couldn’t do something like 23-2 or something? At least fans of DC and Final Fantasy would be able to understand that (since we FF fans deal with names like Final Fantasy X-2 and Final Fantasy XIII-2). Hell, that would lead to LESS confusion for new readers because they could look at it saying “Oh, it’s DC number 23 part 2!” They could do that with all the villains books (23-3, 23-4, 23-5) to give an order to the timeline.

    8:27 Missed opportunity for a Pixar’s “Inside Out” joke Linkara. They gave you that one on a silver platter.

    10:45 Sounds reasonable, why is Relic the villain again? At least with Zod he was an asshat about wanting to take over Krypton. Or Braniac being an asshat for just saving the information of Krypton instead of the people.

    12:25 Coming back to Final Fantasy, it sounds like this is just a convoluted version of the Mako from FF7.

    14:55 Never mind, Inside Out joke found.

    17:05 I do the exact same thing to if the idiots who were waging war with the source of energy draining to universe. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

    19:20 Why does Kyle have the White Lantern outfit on?

  11. Eh, I thought it was an okay story that worked well for the villains’ motive. Even if my inner nerd is screeching at it, and I’m a Green Lantern nerd

  12. I KNEW you’d make an Inside Out joke! That’s such a great movie! I thought there’d be some more plot at the end. Instead, it was a plug. It was still a good review. I also knew you’d mention Mechkara eventually too.

  13. I’ve had the same issue with people like cheering on villains. It’s not just comics but wrestling and video games and even tv shows too. I wondered what the fascination of it is. There are villains I think are good but I would never root for them. Same in everything else. I like some one with a reason and dimensional but I would never hope they win in the end.

  14. I don’t agree with some of the observations. It seems like there’s a comparison going on with universe itself as a Green Lantern ring. The battery is never drained but with use the ring needs to be recharged. Likewise when the universe was drained of its energy reserve the source recharged it. Maybe there was a scheduled recharging in another 10,000 years and by tapping into that reserve to build cities they drained it much faster than anticipated.

    A green lanterns will doesn’t power the ring but shapes how the energy in their ring is used. Similarly the emotional spectrum can be the catalyst for how the energy reserve manifests. Emotions don’t generate it but are a way of tapping into it. In that way there can be a common reserve and the distinguishing characteristics can be based on which emotion served as the catalyst. That answers half the question raised at the 12 minute mark.

    The question that should have been raised is if gravity is the manifestation of an objects passion to be near another, why are they pulled together when it runs out? If gravity were to stop objects would crumble, drift apart, and dissipate. There wouldn’t be black holes.

    Maybe everything expanded against the source wall creating an equal and opposite force inward crushing everything again. I suppose it would take the force of the entire universe suddenly crashing into it to cause a crack in it.

    They accuse him of being a relic of a less enlightened age but it sounds like his theories are new. They didn’t know enough about where their energy came from to disprove his theory. It seems they weren’t so enlightened either.

    As for Relic’s size, the universe is constantly expanding. His universe was at the end of its energy reserve and therefore it was likely much older when it died. So everything in it would have expanded more. Including him. Adam Warlock from Marvel underwent the same thing discovering that some parts of the universe expand at different rates, which prevented him from retuning to earth due to his relative size.

    Saw there was more time after the video and thought the story line was back. Disappointed to see it was just a sponsor plug.

    • Yeah but it still feels like a pretty strong retcon that some people just aren’t willing to swallow. Then there is also trying to make since of how this all works considering all the Crises, the Multiverse, and etc. My solution at this point is to usually focus more on the characters, stories, and art.

  15. “End game, which i have not read.”

    you know what to do Patreon Supporters.

  16. The Relic thing is the point at which I stopped reading Green Lantern after it had become basically my favorite book. It’s such a fundamentally stupid premise. The universe blows up when it runs out of feels, which Kyle fixes by feeling really hard at the Source Wall. The stories that came right afterward were shitty too.

    It was all basically just an excuse to get the Corps fighting again after the previous storylines had gotten them to the point of being more or less friends. Sure, you need conflict for stories, but it’s such a stupid reason for a conflict, and it prompts Hal to be even more of an asshole.

  17. I don’t understand that whole reservoir thing either. If it is made of emotions then it should be constantly replenished.

  18. Given that most Magic players use two or three colors, I don’t know how the Lightsmiths would have built their decks.

  19. Yeah, joke aside, as soon as I read this issue when it came out (and I decided not to get it, stupid cover gimmicks irritate me), I immediately thought of the whole Star Trek warp crisis thing as well. It’s a cheap way to raise the stakes without necessarily thinking through of what the ramifications of the actions would be to the characters and setting. Now, they did have a few scenes in a few episodes after that particular episode where they said “Ok, we’re going to break the rules and go warp 8”, as the situation was dire and they had to get clearance for it. That raised the dramatic stakes… for a few seconds, even if the context wasn’t really clear.

    The problem with this in Next Generation is that, for the most part, Next Gen is a standalone series, with not much knowledge of past events necessary to follow the story of the given episode. You can watch most episodes and not care about the season or timeline. But with this particular twist on subspace, sequencing would have mattered, if they had stuck with it. Thankfully, they didn’t.

    Furthermore, when they resolved the storyline, it didn’t seem to have any impact on any future events, and they effectively killed Relic, making him pretty much unusable for the near future. Total waste of time.

  20. I like your new end theme.

  21. while i’ve got nothing for happiness and curiosity, my guess on revoltion is that it’s a part of the red lanterns rage.

  22. I seen the decimal thing mostly in manga. Its to tell a story that happen either at the same time between chapter or to tell the same story from another point of view. its the first time i seen that in american comic

  23. iamnotincompliance

    So basically Relic’s backstory is Jor-El’s backstory: scientist who sees the end coming and no one listens. Congratulations, DC, you’re ripping yourselves off.

    My personal theory about that stupid Warp 5 limit thing is all other Federation ships had their nacelles above or below the saucer section. Voyager (at warp) and Enterprise E had them more or less in line. That clearly makes all the difference.

  24. Linkara! The Lantern in page 1 has six fingers! Look!

  25. Not that I know anything about comics, but aren’t there some parallels between this origin story and Galactus’?

  26. RE: The Book Was Better. STARSHIP TROOPERS the movie better than the book? You’ve shot your credibility right in the footnotes, kid.

  27. I suppose the logic for the decimal numbering might have been make the numbers seem “smaller” and “more approachable”

  28. Also, Good news Linkara!

  29. You know, I think the whole emotional spectrum reservoir thing could have worked, in a different way. If for instance people feeling their emotions and being open and honest and not suppressing them refills the reservoir, but the different lanterns were using more emotional energy than was flowing in. That way they could use it for a long time but it would still drain sooner or later.

    For it to really work however i think that rather than the entire universe coming apart people and animals (the ones that have emotions, like apes, and dogs and corvids, not like ants and mold) became more and more numb. Also, as things like compassion and love went away more and more avarice and aggression would take over so those would be the last emotions to go. Therefor Relic, having escaped his own hellish universe, would have no feelings left at all other than anger, directed at anyone who would tap into the reservoir and risk draining it. Having all the good intentions but no compassion, love or hope to temper them.

  30. Umm, nope, Linkara. Even as far as Voyager they remembered the rule of Warp 5 when in inhabited systems. Heck, it based the basis of an episode where aliens wanted to eject Voyager’s warp core! Mind you, the idea was still silly, but they did not retcon it.

    http://en.memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Speed_limit

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