Captain America & Hydra – Unrepentant Geeking

Shaun follows-up a previous comment with an in-depth discussion of the recent Captain America controversy.

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  1. I don’t have any problem with anything relating to marginalizing Jews or whatever, nor have I been hearing anything about that, at least not in my social circles.

    I think, however, the fact that doing something like this, going over to Time magazine and lying through your teeth that it’s 100% for real while listing off a litany of the usual bullshit excuses that you’re claiming totally don’t apply this time, is “the game” nowadays is probably part of why comics are a dwindling medium. I think doing cheap shock value stories like this boosts sales in the short term, but in the long run it’s what causes people to think of comics as a gonzo medium not worth reading.

    Hell, look at Green Lantern after the Johns run finished and how the very next story was about how the universe has a limited supply of feels, and when people have felt all the feels the universe explodes. It was a stupid twist done purely to shake things up and it got a lot of people, myself included, to jump ship after years of religiously buying every book with a ringslinger on it. When you rely on clickbait, and a twist like this is the literary equivalent of clickbait, eventually people think you’re just full of shit.

    • This is pretty much why I never got into Superhero comics in the first place.

      Too many cheap gimmicks, too many retcons, Too many cases where a new writer gets onboard and flush everything the last writer did down the toilet.

  2. ThatAnimeChick

    I’m not a fan of the concept, something about this feels… wrong. Then again, the concept has been done before… many times, in fact. To the point where it’s like beating a dead horse, actually.

    I can only hope the reason why “Captain America has always been a member of Hydra” thing is a result of time travel-shenanigans instead of an outright retcon because that would make it even worse.

    I’ll try to be open-minded, at least…

  3. Yeah! I JUST commented about this last time. My wish has come true! ^.^ I didn’t know that you were Jewish. Also, you don’t like Gotham?… I get it but it’s idiotic fun. So… onto the main topic, I hope you’re right. I REALLY REALLY do. I am just not a positive person like that. At this moment though, this twist makes me feel dirty just based on the character, not any real life complaint. It may be a twist of a twist though like you said so that makes me feel better. Oh, I can’t believe that you’ve gotten death threats! O.O The heck? Not even an “I’m going to beat you up”, just a straight jump to death?!

  4. Exactly my thoughts here. I’ve mentioned it a couple of times before, but Marvel apparently really wants to do more Superior Spiderman, and I’ve liked that one as well. However Superior Iron Man couldn’t hold his book for longer than nine issues, and I don’t think the Superior Cap will do much better… Although given the outrage, people might just buy it to hate it, I don’t know.
    But yes, it’s most likely Cap got hit by Cosmic Cube mojo going around, I have no idea why people can’t see the blatant plot hook when it’s staring right in their face. Maybe it’s because tumblrinas are too loud.

  5. Point is that this is a stupid idea that can never be taken back and or “fixed” because even if they do something else with the story, someone else after their run on Captain Quisling is going to pick up the story pieces again and use it again and again. Just like Spiderman’s clones, Giant man’s wife beating storyline, Iron Man’s young self being the real Ironman and so on. The jack is out of the box now and the stink of this story line will never go away. I think the peopel who defend this idea should just come out and say that they like the fact that Captain America and his ideals are drawn through the mud.

  6. Well, I agree with you about the death threats and the importance of real people over fictional ones.

    I come from more of a DC perspective than a Marvel one. The movies are the only things that have gotten me interested in Marvell. And Captain America is, for me, the one thing that’s kept my interest. I was enjoying the movies.

    Then my BFF decided to point out the current fervor over this twist. I now regret looking into it because it’s tarnished my enjoyment of the movies and has left me no desire to see any further Marvel movies. After all, Marvel isn’t what I grew up with anyway, my main attachment was that I enjoy seeing Steve Rogers work so damn hard to live up to his ideals in a complicated world. You take those ideals, the core of his character away, and I have no interest in Steve Rogers.

    I’m not going to argue with you about the cube. Sounds like you’re right and that’s the planned giant reset button. The problem is that that reset button doesn’t work for me. Brainwashing? Fine. Especially earlier on in his history when he was less established and certain of himself. Resetting the universe so that Steve Rogers was always part of Hydra? Fine. But then he doesn’t get to be Captain American because he would never have made the cut. He can be the Red Skull’s wimpy little henchman or something if you want to explore a different past path. But to be Captain America requires more than faking it until you make it.

    Having Captain America (not Steve Rogers, but Captain America) have been a Hydra spy the whole time, kills what I see as the core of the character and there is no coming back from that.

    Now, I wasn’t buying the comics, so it’s not like they’re losing money from me there. But I was watching the movies. Not happening any more because now none of the characters are particularly interesting to me. And because I am stubborn and idealistic about things, never again will I be watching or buying anything Captain America or Avengers related. They killed my interest in that. And because I have no interest, I won’t be supporting other members of my family to become interested either. Maybe it won’t make a difference, maybe it will. I don’t know. I’m not as invested in this branch of nerd rage because Captain America was not near and dear to my heart since childhood. For that, we’ll have to get to talking about DC. So I guess I’ll see you next week.

    • You ARE aware that the comics and the movies are not in the same continuity or even canon aren’t you?

      The writers in marvel comics might have screwed the pooch, but that doesn’t make the MCU captain America to be Hydra.

  7. Yep, pretty much my reaction.

    Personally, I thought it was kind of a dumb move, and Marvel’s implications in interviews leads me to believe that this is going in a direction I’m not personally interested in seeing at all… but, while that’s annoying to me as a Captain America fan, I’m not going to go on and on about it, nor call Marvel anti-semetic over it, and DEFINITELY not going to be saying the creator should DIE over it, that’s ludicrous.

    By the way, I seem to recall you mentioned you were a Superman fan. I’ve not followed all your videos too closely (I think I might soon), but if you were dissatisfied as I was with the direction Superman was taking, I highly recommend Superman: Lois and Clark. It’s an excellent series so far with its eight issues, about Post-Crisis Superman living with love-of-his-life Lois, and their son Jon Kent. It was great seeing a proper representation of Superman back in action after five years of bullshit with his character thanks to Morrison’s idiotic run of Action Comics.

    Not sure if you’ve read that, so sorry if that’s either a repeat of stuff you’ve been told, or if you’re already into the book. But I recommend it anyhoo to anyone who wanted to see the progression of the GOOD Superman.

  8. Dude calm down no one’s judging you yet I’m sure.

  9. Everyone’s more slightly confused than angry that you said “Hail Hydra” and claimed to be their agents.

  10. Hey Shaun Kronenberg you self-hating Jew.

  11. You Americans and British people always trivialize the Nazi Germans because you’re not like us Russians or Russian-Jews and you often hate us previous Communist Russians more or you Americans are just pop culturally fucking nuts fanboys or girls who don’t or often refuse to face reality trvialized people.

  12. Not a single person I know got annoyed because they thought that Steve was going to be a Hydra agent.
    They got annoyed because it was such an obvious and stupid publicity stunt.
    Because we’ve seen that shit before.
    Because a lot of us stopped reading comics because of shit like this.
    Because we already know it’s gonna be the cube thing, or a doppleganger, or Loki or whatever. Because they expect us to get excited about this stupid shit.
    Because they once again choose cheap tricks instead of good writing to get a temporary leg up, when it’s exactly that sort of thing that has damaged the industry so much in the past.

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