Sexual Harassment in Hollywood

Discussion in 'Films' started by J. McBain, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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  2. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    https://www.thecut.com/2018/01/moira-donegan-i-started-the-media-men-list.html

    Took notice just recently when much to my disappointment, Lexi Alexander left twitter recently and read she took credit for it originally in a "I Am Spartacus" fashion. Original writer came forward with the list of course. Honestly, best to warn others who's an abuser anyway so it is within her right to post what.
     
  3. Moviefan12

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  4. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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  5. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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  6. ThatManWithTheHeadband12

    ThatManWithTheHeadband12 More Trophy Points Please

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  7. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    Very, very disappointing to hear this from him. Oddly, he denounced the pay gap days earlier but then this. :/

    Also, not how a witch hunt works.
     
  8. JimB

    JimB More Trophy Points Please

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    Witch hunts refer to a time when men killed women for undisprovable crimes.

    Comparing sexual harassment allegations to witch hunts is in pretty poor fucking taste.
     
  9. GoofyHairOzzie

    GoofyHairOzzie More Trophy Points Please

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    Thing is he's not the first celebrity to say this is a "witch hunt", I remember last week that Catherine Deneuve throw these two words as well.
     
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  10. YouAskedForIt

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    her response:
    http://www.nme.com/news/music/catherine-deneuve-2218706

    “Rape is a crime. But trying to seduce someone, even persistently or clumsily, is not – and nor is men being gentlemanly a chauvinist attack.”

    “[Men], who are sanctioned in their work, [are] pushed to resign, etc., when their only wrongdoing was to touch a knee, try to steal a kiss, speak about intimate things during a professional dinner or send messages that are sexually loaded to a woman who wasn’t attracted to them.

    “As women we do not recognise ourselves in this feminism, which beyond denouncing the abuse of power, takes on a hatred of men and of sexuality,”
     
  11. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    She understands nothing.
     
  12. YouAskedForIt

    YouAskedForIt More Trophy Points Please

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    Ultimately, all that's going on is private companies deciding not to work with people. Going so far as to buy them out of their contract, as was with the case of Gal Gadot not wanting to work with that one director/producer.

    I'm more inclined to believe that the legal construct is not a base of criteria for consideration with what's going on here. The toxic environment in the industry has prevailed despite the legal system. So what we have is a collective effort to smother that toxicity. Even Neason in that video above said that the overall effort is healthy and that the circumstance spreads worldwide.

    The law acts to protect individuals from punitive measures done by the government. Citing the law here is about as frivolous as people that cite free speech when the internet gets mad at them for saying something offensive.
     
  13. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    Because they can be ignorant to say like calling it a witch hunt. For God's sake, Spielberg doesn't call it a witch hunt.
     
  14. Nostalgicnerd

    Nostalgicnerd Member

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    So how bout Shane Dawson?...

     
  15. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    Will people stop calling it a witch hunt!
     
  16. YouAskedForIt

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    I haven't heard about that guy since Phelous reviewed Smiley.
     
  17. LeeleeSobieskiFan

    LeeleeSobieskiFan More Trophy Points Please

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    I've posted in this thread disagreeing with the general consensus once before, and I'm going to do so again. I'll say my thoughts as respectfully as I can, but I know the ones who won't respect my opinion. So don't open if you don't want to read it:

    While I disagree with Liam Neeson about the Dustin Hoffman ordeal, I do agree with him that there is a "witch hunt" going on in Hollywood to out whoever did anything wrong. Touching someone's knee? A pat on the back? Flirting? Come on. Let's not treat the ones who do something so small and meaningless like that the same we do to the Harvey Weinsteins and Kevin Spaceys of this fallout.

    Some of the "victims" are so obviously blaming "accusers" for something either because they want the attention or money or whatever. Of course I'm not saying every single woman in this situation is like that, come on. But I firmly believe some are. Case and point, James Franco. I don't remember which of the women it was, I think maybe Violet Paley(?) but she's been accused of the event being consensual and she's only turned her story after James' recent Golden Globe win. Franco has his fair share of stupid, perverted mistakes but he's so blatantly remorseful and handled the situation well, which has gotten praise (http://people.com/movies/ashley-judd-james-franco-praises-response-to-sexual-misconduct-allegations/).

    It's getting to the point where the most innocent celebrity will get blamed for something either small or nonexistent that their career will be ruined because everyone decides to hate them regardless of the situation they are in. We have to draw a line somewhere or else we won't be able to trust anyone.

    I will NOT spoiler this, however.

    Out of all of this, the one thing that's consistently pissed me off is the boycotting of certain movies because of specific people. Not watching Coco because of John Lasseter or never watching American Beauty because of Kevin Spacey is a spit in the face to the hundreds to thousands of people who worked on the film. I forgot who said it in this thread but someone said something along the lines of "people get paid up front on a movie." That's only true sometimes; a majority of the crew, especially writers, directors, producers, actors, etc. receive checks through box office and distribution. Had Coco flopped because it was boycott, it would've put a lot of innocent animators and writers out of work, and that is not fair to people working in the industry (many people I know) and people trying to get into the industry (me and my peers in Southern Californian film schools).

    Please DO NOT refuse to watch a movie due to one person. It effects much more than you'd think.
     
  18. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    Nobody suggested a boycott for Coco. And dude, it's everyone's choice not to watch American Beauty given it's a 1999 film and this is 2018 and people have a choice to watch it or not. Plus, everyone who worked on that film is no doubt still doing well off from whatever pay they receive from that movie. And like many, that's not what a witch hunt is.
     
  19. Flynn

    Flynn More Trophy Points Please

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    If this was actually a thing that was happening I'd agree with you that it'd be a problem, but we've yet to have a celebrity seriously under fire for "touching someone's knee"--hell, even suggesting as such seems to willfully ignore the severity of the cases that have come forward so far. Like, if anyone can actually point to these supposed victimized celebrities whose careers are being ruined by opportunistic women then I'll treat it as a valid point instead of the fear-mongering slippery slope it appears to be.
     
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  20. Critic_Critic

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    Bold is from me. You "firmly" believe some are, and your example to demonstrate the firm belief you have is one you don't even fully remember, let alone researched to validate the judgment call you're making. It's like you've committed to making the same sin as Movie-Brat, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. Even in the very article you posted, Paley's whole point was that the encounter wasn't consensual.

    Non-consensual intercourse within a consensual relationship is frequently the hardest kind of abuse to speak up about because it isn't the straightforward predatory behavior that people find easiest to wrap their minds around. Like marital rape, people default to the understanding that if you were willing to commit to a relationship with the individual, any and all sexual activity must therefore have your consent, if not as something genuinely owed to your respective partner. It's complex, and the victim frequently has to get through all sorts of internal dilemmas regarding if, how and when they want to come forward. But like any case, there's comfort in numbers, as well as power, which is why highly publicized cases tend to spark others to publicize their own experiences as well. (at least five as listed in your very own article)

    To default to the judgment call, "oh they just want money" without evidence or base for such a claim is you demonstrating your own bias, no better than Movie-Brat giving special treatment to Stan Lee. The idea that they want attention, even more ridiculous. From Time:

    "The pair then fell out of touch, but a week after the New York Times reported on multiple allegations of sexual harassment against Harvey Weinstein in October 2017, Paley emailed Franco to express her discomfort with what she said happened in the car.
    ...
    Paley said Franco’s response is upsetting. “He’s saying that he cares about these women speaking out. It’s such bulls—t,” she said. “He lied on TV on two different late-night shows, making me — who doesn’t have a platform at all — look like a psychopath.”

    Franco told Colbert on Tuesday night that “if there’s restitution to be made, I will make it.” Paley said that Franco hasn’t reached out to her since she spoke up, and she has not tried to contact him.

    Paley said coming forward has been difficult. She’s received a barrage of criticism on social media, including death threats. She deleted the Twitter app off of her phone and made her Instagram account private, though more women have privately reached out to her with allegations against Franco.

    “I’m fine most of the time, but sometimes I’m regretful and wish I hadn’t said anything. Sometimes I just want to leave L.A.,” says Paley, a writer and filmmaker, but “I think it’s still worth it because of that feeling of knowing that you’re helping someone else and standing up for what you know is right.” She said it would be validating if prominent Hollywood women spoke out against Franco, but what she really wants is for Franco to take responsibility.

    “I wish he had originally replied to my email and met with me and just listened. I wish he made a promise to change,” she said. “When the allegations against Louis C.K. came out — and they were disgusting — he acknowledged what he did. It would give me some comfort if he were to say, ‘What happened was true and I’m sorry.'


    But oh yes, it's attention and money that's what she's really after. All those attacks on social media, and deleting her apps and accounts are things she was not-so-secretly wishing for. And of course, all that money to be made in the form of public apology. When I buy groceries, I routinely ask if I can pay in public apology. Best exchange rates, too.

    ...

    It's probably also worth including a link to LA Times who broke the story: http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-james-franco-allegations-20180111-htmlstory.html

    And again, I have the same problems with statement like this telling us what we SHOULD NOT do, as I have problems with people telling us what we SHOULD do. I believe I have said this a few times now: the decision to consume the work put out by anyone named in this thread is a purely personal one, up to you and you alone, and whatever you're comfortable watching and capable of enjoying. If an allegation against Lasseter or Spacey is genuinely making you feel guilty and unable to enjoy watching their films, you have ZERO obligation to view and support those films anyways.

    Your viewing decisions affect a whole lot of people, both positively and negatively, and there's no way to perfectly negate the bad for the good (or vice-versa), so ultimately you should make those decisions according to your own personal preference, purely how your own internal scales balance, and don't look back. Don't let anyone else guilt trip you into thinking you made a bad choice one way or the other.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2018 at 6:15 AM
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  21. JimB

    JimB More Trophy Points Please

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    Is there any movie I'm allowed to not watch for any reason, then, since it would spit in the faces of the people who worked on it and put them out of a job? I mean, since their livelihoods are being taken hostage and the only way to save them is for me to financially support them whether or not I know there's a sexual predator who will also profit from my viewing...
     
  22. estefan

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    None of the allegations I've seen so far have been for things like clumsy flirting and lightly touching somebody's back. If John Lasseter was just hugging his co-workers (which is well known. You see it in a lot of behind-the-scenes featurettes about Pixar), he wouldn't be on his "sabbatical" and as has been reported, it's not just for "unwanted hugs."

    A lot of the men currently being ousted by Hollywood right now are because they've raped, inappropriately grabbed, masturbated in front of, exposed their genitals to and done other horrible acts to people. Though, honestly, the best thing that has come out of these allegations is men are being more careful about how they approach women and do learn their actions have real world consequences. I'm pretty sure flirting hasn't stopped happening or even consensual kissing (we still see male award winners cheek kiss woman presenters at award shows). There are probably still rapists out there, but I hope there has been a severe drop-off, post-Weinstein. And if more men reflect back and think "hmm, maybe I went about that situation the wrong way" and apologise (Dan Harmon seems to have done this), that's also good.

    A lot of these cases have these men somehow lose their moral conscience and not realise what they're doing is wrong. I've been rejected by women I've asked out and accepted it gracefully. My first thought has never been to whip out my dick and start masturbating in front of them. What the hell is wrong with these men?!?
     
  23. JimB

    JimB More Trophy Points Please

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    I can't find a link to it, so it's possible I'm making this up, but I have a very clear memory of reading a story fairly recently of someone saying that Hollywood's atmosphere is extremely intimate because the nature of acting requires people to be very open with their feelings; so guys whip their dicks out to express their feelings. I wish I could find it so I wouldn't have to paraphrase like that.
     
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  24. Movie-Brat

    Movie-Brat More Trophy Points Please

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    I didn't give special treatment to Stan Lee, ugh.
     
  25. Fluffyman

    Fluffyman More Trophy Points Please

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  26. Movie-Brat

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  27. LeeleeSobieskiFan

    LeeleeSobieskiFan More Trophy Points Please

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    I respect all your opinions, but I disagree.
     
  28. JimB

    JimB More Trophy Points Please

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    LeeleeSobieskiFan is speaking to those of us who disagree with her post earlier on this page.
     
  29. Fluffyman

    Fluffyman More Trophy Points Please

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    Well this is why there is a reply button, to suddenly make a statement like that with no clarity to what it refers to can look pretty bad out of context.
     
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  30. JimB

    JimB More Trophy Points Please

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    True, but now you know the context, so everything is cool and we can return to the topic at hand.
     

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