If You Don’t Like It, You Can Leave – Mud2MMO

This week Tyger is talking about gamer response to criticism, in part about the last episode of his show, but also in general.

About pb-Tyger

MUD2MMO is a bi-weekly show talking about gaming culture. It's not a typical review or "go buy this game" show, we focus on the gamers, the industry, everything else. Come on by, enjoy the show.


  1. MidnightScreeningsman2014

    I actually agree with alit of the points you made in this video and this is gotta be my favorite video from this MUD2MMO!!!

    The reason gamers I think don’t change though is because one word:Nostalgia. Well not all of it they can accept new games and consoles but they stick to the same immature behavior and they shun the weaker players while if your strong they keep you around. They won’t learn to evolve because they don’t want to see change it has to be the same and If something changes they have a complete freak-out!!!

    Also agree they don’t wanna be mainstream because they hide out in there little basements(not saying you do just the immature baby like ones) and play games all day,no social interaction at all and if somebody were to criticize them they get all up in arms(but sometimes they have nothing to do about it) and this one thing I like about you is that you try to critique them and make it to where it’s true.

    I feel ya though when you brought up video game violence in the 80s and everybody thinking they were horrible and they made kids violent and they were to violent!!!!

    Today with games like the GTA series I can see that series wanting kids and them getting bad stuff from it and it being for them wanting to be violent but for other games(with the exception of call of duty) I don’t see it really much now that I think about it.

    Going back to criticizing gamers though, when you said Anita Sarkeesian and you when you brought up that name and said all of you just probably rolled your eyes at that name and after you said that I rolledy eyes cause she’s the main person who gets the gaming community wrong and I haven’t ever watched one of your videos and I will never watch one of them cause she’s just a mistaken person just like all the rest who criticize the gaming community.

    Finally when thinking about how many minutes or times a month I play a game,I’m just starting to get into them now and I recently on Saturday played an 1hr and 30 minutes of the wolf among us on Friday and finished chapter one and really enjoyed it but I hope to play more games(and givin my dad has lots of games he downloaded onto the Xbox One he got for Christmas I’ve figured I might play one of those as well as the countless games I own).

    So sorry for the long ramblings and I truly so hope your doing good and glad you got your glasses back so quick even though I wasn’t expecting them until the next episode but earlier is better!!! Well like your shirt and your cute dog and will definitely check out more from you.

    Speaking of which,what has your sarcastic digital game tiger buddy been up to,recentl

  2. Good episode!

    My one criticism is your opening, which is getting REALLY old. The whole “sit down, we need to talk” thing is patronizing and weak as a starting point. The meat of your argument is great, but almost every episode starts in this way and it really hurts your videos.

  3. Excellent video, Tyger. Probably one of, if not your best one yet.

    Honestly, I stopped playing games online like Halo due to whiny kids and mostly stick to single player games, but my girlfriend is heavy into MMOs and League of Legends and has been harassed numerous times. Luckily we haven’t been swatted or doxxed yet, but the current climate of gamers not taking criticism and always wanting to be right has gotten much worse than when I started playing Counterstrike and Quake 3.

    Kinda funny how you showed those Xbox Live messages, because I would get those a lot too. XD

  4. VulpesHilarianus

    Your comment about our society being a binary system isn’t exactly correct. I’ve met plenty of people where they get along fine with eachother, even if there’s some sort of major upset. Plenty of people who enjoy videogames are rational. There’s not just two camps in videogames, there’s dozens. For example, when you play Grand Theft Auto Online you can find a multitude of… attitudes. Sure there are the “bro” gamers that scream “1 v.1 me brah!” and all that other crap. There are children, there are drugged out teenagers, and there are people just playing with friends and following their psychotic lead. Griefers, macro-abusers, and selfish assholes, all there too. But there’s a spectrum. In one game session lasting three hours I went from running for my life from some dickwots with Hydras and Lazers to cruising around and having a big massive party in the middle of the beach with a dozen people. We were all having fun, showing off our cars, doing drifts along the boardwalk, and just having a fun time. Not five minutes after somebody brought out the yacht we were on they disconnected and someone else joined. And that new person started bombing everyone that got teleported to the beach after the yacht disappeared.

    That wide swath of different personalities, priorities, and attitudes doesn’t just apply to Grand Theft Auto Online. They can be in any game, at any time. Certain game types like first-person shooters and arena games tend to attract less savory and anti-social people, sure. But that’s because those players are there for the game itself and not the interactions. It’s why League Of Legends has such a reputation for the userbase being absolute dicks to eachother. But at the same time there’s people who will say “Sorry, I fucked up and pressed 3 and Ahri got away” or something. They own up to it. The problem is, those people never speak up. They’re modest. As they should be.

    It’s the small amount of angry, aggressive, selfish gamers who don’t realize that they’re interacting with other people that want to enjoy the game that give gaming a bad reputation. It goes by the old and ever-present rule that the vocal minority is the one that’s taken into consideration. For example, the Tracer butt thing. I didn’t care. It was an odd choice, and the media shaded it to seem like Blizzard was giving in to a weak anti-sexism protest. But in all fairness, there are plenty of other characters where half their outfit is cleavage. I doubt someone clenching their butt and tilting their hips is going to make a difference there. And Blizzard was right. The leg cock pose they came out with was better. But the small amount of assholes who care about a tease pose still won’t give up on it because it was a change they didn’t ask for.

    It’s a bit of warfare. The media grab onto any controversy they can get to generate views and money, and the assholes who are the vocal minority fight back with whatever they have as a guerrilla group. They feed the media, who go further into their attacks that eventually spread out to cover the culture as a whole. And the people who feel persecuted and have no sense of scale up the ante. Eventually you get individual gamers or developers making a choice that’s best for everyone, and the group that didn’t want any change at all feels like they have no power to revert back (Old School RuneScape versus RuneScape 3 comes to mind) and bitch and moan and eventually threaten people because they feel disgruntled. This comes with being connected to everyone on the planet with an internet connection. On the other hand there are very few and far between instances of the vocal minority being right, such as the Nostalrius Conflict. Blizzard really fucked up with that one, and they rightly deserve to be called out for it. It’s all shades of grey, not black and right. Not everyone in gaming culture is right. Not everyone in the media is right. It’s just like the rest of the world, and just like the rest of the world it’s going to change as time goes on.

  5. A comment of mine appeared briefly when you showed the thread from kia. I feel the need to explain what I meant more thoroughly. I was delighted at how happy you sounded not to be talking about yet another f2p mmo that is identical to every other f2p mmo – I can’t stand the modern wave of mmo’s either. You reviewed everquest some time ago – and that is the kind of online rpg that i do enjoy (i wenr from tibia>ultima online>runescape ) – but the critisisms you had of that game were of the the things that I love in online rpgs (a wiki that is about the same size as the wiki pages for classical rome ).

    That out of the way. Like it or leave can often be perfect valid and childish. The awful behaviour of people online orbits competitive player-v-player games. You just don’t see that kind of behaviour in runescape. The people that play those games must like it as it is. Not everything is for me, not all groups of people are ones I would want to be with. But what if those awful people are doing something that I think would be fun? I cannot see that the solution is ever to stomp upon the people already there and happy but in the creation of different games and different servers (with different cultures). The old PC model of there being hundreds of private server groups each with different rules and behaviour codes seems ideal.

    But that would leave really popular leaderboards and public achievments in the cold for games like cs:go. Is that a critical problem? I don’t evjoy the kind of PvP games where toxic behaviour germinates and so I really don’t know. I am sure that stopping people behaving as they are and always have been (when they are not actually doing any harm – i’m a free speech maximalist) is a far more hostile and awful act than people saying awful things in cs:go.

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