Rantasmo: Korra Needs More Gay

Rantasmo talks Korrasami, queerbaiting, and the Avatar saga’s controversial conclusion.

About rantasmo

Needs More Gay dissects the highs and lows of gay pop culture with the precision of a dull machete.

100 comments

  1. I never saw Sherlock as very queerbait-y either, and I definitely don’t think that the writers etc. intended it to be. Now, there’s definitely enough subtext, though, especially in the last episode of season 3. What makes me somewhat angry is that Moffat & co are clearly aware of it, and as you said, intentionally put the subtext in the show, but then announce to everybody and their dog that nothing will ever happen between them. True, they never really hinted at a relationship, but putting obvious fanservice in a show and then flat out denying that there is any tension seems like a dick move. I personally do ship Johnlock, but I’m against it becoming canon (which it won’t ever be) because, yes, it doesn’t make much sense in terms of character etc. I just don’t really like how some people involved with the show handle this topic.
    I haven’t really watched Korra, but I intend to, not just because of the ending, even though that is a part. I just think it’s great to include a same sex relationship, even if they’re just hinting at it. It’s a step in the right direction.

    • It really is a pretty great series whether you buy into the hinted/stated relationship. And the hinting is almost impossible to miss in season 4 (after the two spent an insane amount of time together in season 3, occasionally saving each other’s lives).

    • I'mVeryAngryIt'sNotButter

      I’ve just accepted by this point that Moffat’s a total assclown who shouldn’t be allowed to touch another script in his life.

  2. I havent watched korra, but this new lesbian relationship is pretty cool~ as a kid who grew up in japan where kids saw gay characters, its really not a big deal. Kids arent going to start freaking out their world shattered at the mere notion that two women could be in a relationship. I personally was a bit confused, my friends had to explain to me what Uranus’s deal was, I still didn’t really get it but they did, and they didn’t really care, I later learned that gay people existed and also didn’t really care “oh, people of the same gender ha? thats cool~” Its soon going to be so not an issue, im pretty excited for that.

  3. Ground bending? Ha, I love your puns!

    But seriously, thank you so much for mentioning that their relationship blossomed from a close friendship. All I keep seeing as criticism of their romantic relationship is that they come across as just close friends. My fiancee and I were “just close friends” for over a year before our romantic relationship started, so why does it somehow not make sense for Korra and Asami?

    • To me the Korsami thing just felt…. well like.

      They hinted at it, and I picked up on most of those hints. I was fine with them leaving it at ” Maybe maybe not who really knows what happens at the end of the show. ”
      But instead of that they go from hints to out right stating it. ” They’re a couple.”

      Yet we never see the couple bits. I’m not talking about kissing, no no I mean spending time together, having conversations about being together, that sort of thing.

      We got to see Bolin ask Opal out they talked about their relationship.

      Korsami got ” Hey I know your dad is dead, wanna go to the spirit world?”

      • In a statement from series co-creator Bryan Konietzko, he says that Korra/Asami was an idea they’d been kicking around since before the series began, but didn’t officially ‘begin’ until Book 3. They were operating under the unspoken assumption that they would never be allowed to show it openly on screen, so they only ‘… alluded to it throughout the second half of the series’.

        The official explanation is that they were just close friends throughout the show, and were just developing romantic feelings near the end of the series. The act of them stepping into the portal hand in hand is supposed to be symbolic of the transformation of their friendship into a romantic relationship.

        http://bryankonietzko.tumblr.com/post/105916338157/korrasami-is-canon-you-can-celebrate-it-embrace

      • Well in July, the creators announced that they are making an official Legend of Korra comic series that “will focus on Korra and Asami’s relationship.”

  4. I 100% agree that it really seems that the creators went as far as the Nickelodeon would allow them to. Its also kind of ironic that Nickelodeon did its best to kill and bury the show, but the show’s last ten seconds ended up being the most memorable and talked-about moment in American animation in years.

    The creators have said that there will be at least one follow-up comic book to Legend of Korra, like they did with Avatar: The Last Airbender. Let’s hope they can use that to explore the KorrAsami relationship a little more in depth than they could have with the actual show itself.

    • I would like a bit of exploration into their new relationship too, but I’d rather it not be the main focus of the story. I think it’d be really awesome if they go to Korra’s parents to spread the word and everyone is super OK with it. Like, to the point where they’re even saying things like “Why would we have any problem with your relationship? Whatever makes you happy, makes us happy!” Of course, just so long as they both remain strong characters, whatever the comic covers will be great.

    • Good news, because the creators are giving us exactly that. They said that the comic will be focusing on Korra and Asami’s relationship.

  5. Bad pun is bad but good video is good

  6. Isn’t this similar to the whole Xena and Gabrielle issue? I’m curious about that, but anyway, awesome review.

  7. As a fan of the show, I want to have more conversations on Korra of the thousands of minutes that preceded the last one, but I’m ok talking about Korrasami for the moment.

    I wished they had taken the plunge sooner. After season 3, Korra and Asami being a couple would have been a no-brainer. We saw these two work together, fight for each other, evade a giant land-shark together. (After you stare down the gullet of a land-shark, that’s a compadre for life.) And a worried Asami offers to stay by Korra as she recovers.

    But then three years pass by with only one note (that we know of) passing between them. And Korra spends all this time healed by Kitara, then Toph, the Zaheer. At no point did she want or need her friends throughout this personal ordeal. I’m not trying the sink the good ship Korrasami, but does this seem like the signs of a healthy relationship? Aside from one awkward dinner and a heart-to-heart during the clipshow, Korra and Asami didn’t have anything close to the facetime they had in Season 3. That’s why the last minute felt as forced and obligatory as Mako and Korra in season 1. They’re together because its the end and the mains hook up in the end. “If you’re not dead yet you might as well get wed’.

    Did the show need more gay? I’m not sure. LoK was as much about Korra figuring out her true destiny. I think she managed that perfectly as presented. How would more gay have added to that?

    • “Needs more gay” is just a catchphrase of his. He names almost all of his videos like that. Besides, is there such thing as too much gay?

      • “…is there such [a] thing as too much gay?”

        Of course there is. Isn’t there such a thing as “too much straight” in too much media? It might not be noticeable or easily thought up due to widespread heteronormative bias in most people’s thinking, but it certainly can be done. Remember the Masters of the Universe movie?

  8. I em not sure if Rantasmo is reading the comment sections here, but I would like to point out that in the Cartoon Network show Clarence (which is a kids show), one of the main characters (Jeff), is revealed to be raised by a lesbian couple
    the episode is “Jeff Wins” (season 1)

    they may be just supporting characters, but the fact that they even showed a same-sex couple on a kids show should mean something

    (sorry, I’m a bit of a Cartoon Network fanboy, and it irks me that Korra gets all the credit for merely implying a same-sex relationship, when Clarence actually had an all-out confirmed same-sex relationship long before that)

    • That may be, but Korra is technically a first for bisexual represention (first bisexual lead in a kids’ show).

      • good point, but I still don’t get why one show gets all the praise, while another one that did more gets overlooked

        • I’ve never actually heard of Clarence before reading your post. I don’t know if this is an indicator of popularity or not, but generally, I’m more likely to run into total strangers discussing Legend of Korra(which has happened to me a few times), than Clarence(which has never happened to me before now).

          • Clarence came on not too long ago. It’s also a kinda… odd cartoon network show.

            It’s not bad, it’s kinda like a more dumb ( Humor wise ) hey Arnold with a bit better characters. I say it hits pretty close to home to most kids today.

    • Actually Jeff win’s was a fairly recent episode; They only beat Korra to the punch by about 2 weeks. Clarence did try to show a little LGTB content in an earlier episode in October with two random guys on a date together, but CN cut the shot of their cheek kissing before they put the episode on Air.

      As for why Korra gets the attention; well its because it went bigger. First, Korra and Asami are Main Characters. Having the main characters do something carries a lot more weight then a pair of minor characters. Second, Clarance doesn’t have the same following that korra has; it has its viewers but the those that watch Clarance do not love the show as much as the fans of avatar love Korra. Legend of Korra’s following, especially amongst older audiences helps it to generate more buzz online. People talk endlessly online about korra, but not many people talk about Clarance. When Korrasami happened, EVERYONE was talking about it; when Jeff wins happened, not many people talked about it. And Third, korra gave it more attention; With Korra, the relationship was the final scene to cap off the entire series; with Jeff mothers however was played pretty nonchalantly… Simply put, Clarence did it first, but very few people actually noticed.

  9. Sherlock just uses subtext and gay jokes to mock how the Victorian bachelor’s living situation would be viewed in modern times. The whole concept of “queerbaiting” sounds a bit ridiculously conspiracy-ish to me. It’s basically saying “This show was all part of an EVUL elaborate plot to taunt LGBT people! *ghostly noises*”. It’s all just Tumblr being Tumblr, I mean, just look at Tumblr’s cries of “Cultural appropriation” and all that sort of stuff.

    • Never understood what people’s problem with “cultural appropriation” even is to begin with

      I mean, last year during the summer, I was walking through the city, and saw a Japanese girl tourist buy one of our traditional hats from a stand at a folk culture fair, and then wore it with her jacket like it was just any other hat.

      And you know what?
      She looked great in it!

      • Because it does hurt people (i.e. when aboriginal art was stolen by tourists, or when vedic religions are degraded into charka nonsense).

        • but this isn’t about artwork being stolen

          this is about people throwing a fit over you wearing a kimono you bought from a store on a trip in Japan

          • Well, let me put it this way: how would you feel if people degraded everything it stood for and know? With things like kimonos it is perhaps acceptable, but when important cultural concepts like traditions and religion are at stake, it’s extremely malevolent of you to dismiss.

          • “how would you feel if people degraded everything it stood for and know?”

            the USA does it every day by merely existing

            got used to it

    • by the way, here’s the full outfit that traditionally belongs to the hat
      http://www.slovakfolkart.sk/images/kroje109.jpg

    • With Sherlock is debateable (at least until latter episodes), but the phenomenon is well documented. Whining that “Tumblr is being Tumblr” when there are academics that write about this stuff only makes you look ignorant.

    • The use of the term “queerbaiting” is when they tease a romantic relationship between two people of the gender, but don’t because either A. they’re not brave enough or B. just want to tease their fans and make gay jokes.

      The concept of queerbaiting hardly started with Tumblr. It’s been around for awhile. Same with cultural appropriation.

  10. I disagree with the queerbaiting part. As much as I thought they built up Korrasami, I just never thought they’d go through with it, but me and everyone I talked to agreed that they had chemistry, more than has ever been shown in the rest of the show, and they totally confirmed it, they aren’t denying anything, it’s just that Nick wouldn’t let them show anything too explicit for people watching to understand what happened. As in, they would if it weren’t for Nick’s Standards and Practices.

    • And that’s the creators fault as well.

      You can’t cry ” Our employers wouldn’t let us write this it’s their fault.” when the writers knew full well they wouldn’t get away with it.

      So Yes I find the random relationship with no pay off A LITTLE annoying.

      Doesn’t help that’s ALL anyone talks about in the finale.

      • Yes you can? Like, why not? It’s still better than if they hadn’t done it at all. Really, if we could only do a same sex romsnce on children’s cartoon without compromise, we would never have them.

        Wait, how is it “random” or has no pay off? It doesn’t count unless they kiss?

  11. If you want to take a look at an american kids cartoon with LGBT, I think the most prominent example would be CN’s Clarance. The show did feature a small scene with a gay couple, but perhaps most significantly, later showed that one of the major characters has two mothers in partnership with each other.
    While I’m happy to see Korra get recognition for confirming that it has two bi protagonists whom end up together, I do wish Clarance could be acknowledged for having a blatantly and on-screen queer couple/parents.

  12. LOL I’m surprised I didn’t expect you to address this. Was all the happier to see it. Agree with all you said & I have nothing but respect to the creators for deliviring sth this good inspite all the meddling from nick. Seriously Nick has been dicking around with this show since season 1 so season 4 as good as it ended up being is almost a miracle. & I do hope Legend of Korra gets remmembered as the game changer. Like I wish same gender couples weren’t a big deal just another romantic potential in a show. Nothing out of the ordinary. But thats not how things are & I do hope Korra opened up some doors. the 1st kids sho with a lead same gender couple before several to come later. Especially if that’s a side note. I’ll love to see new shows about all sorts of great stories, adventures conflicts where the lead happens to be gay, but thats not the focus. Just a thing present in the story. cause Thats life. No “OMG these guys are gay WOOO” but “Oh they’re gay? cool” it be nice to have the latter well written in a kids show… or any show really

  13. I’m still kind of reeling from the Korra finale. Even as an admitted Korrasami shipper I never thought they would actually go through with it, and I was totally blown away by seeing it happen. I wish they could have been a little less vague about it, but that’s just the rules at this point, and hopefully the rules will change before too long. I could definitely see Korra being a real step in that direction.

    Anyway, thanks for mostly echoing my exact thoughts about this subject, so now I can just refer people to this video instead of going through the whole discussion myself over and over again.

  14. I don’t see Korrasami as queerbaiting at all. Queerbaiting is basically showing a bone in front of a starved dog just out of pettiness. While Korrasami is actually giving at bone to the starving dog, albeit unfortunately incapable of doing so earlier.

    • there was no build to it it came out of nowhere loooks like bait to me

      • i guess we are making up what words mean again… queerbaiting means that they hinted at all signs of the relationship happening, and then change it so it wont

      • Except it didn’t come out of nowhere. It had built up, it’s just that build up was subtle and they don’t actually become a couple until the end. Rewatch seasons 3 and 4 and you’ll see Korra and Asami continue to get closer and closer to each other.

        • Yeah there was small build up, but nothing big.

          You don’t go from ” Writing letters to you” to ” Leaving all I know to go travel the world. ”

          And if you do the writers should at least show that change.

          • All these claims of “poor writing” and “coming out of nowhere” aren’t transparent at all.

          • Actually, there was something big with the letter scene. Over the course of three years, Bolin and Mako, and a few other friends, had wrote countless letters to her, both being romantic interests in the past. All these friends and close people were writing, but the only one she ever replied to TRUTHFULLY was Asami.

            She had only sent one letter about how she felt, her plans and what she had to do. Even the letter to her parents, were just lies to make them happy and not come after her. The fact that she had only opened her heart to one person, means that the person that held her heart the most, who she gave it to, would receive this letter. This was one of the biggest clues in the series and though its subtle, its not to be ignored.

            Also through out the whole show, Asami and Korra have had nothing but respect for each other, even when they were rivals. Though the interactions were subtle and clues small, it was obvious when the two were starting to take interest in each other, and if you do a rewatch of this series, those moments become more and more obvious (in short on this ending alone, the rewatch value of this show has increased DRAMATICALLY…great job creators)

            Now personally I wish they would do more, I wish they could have tipped it JUST a little more and have them maybe close in to each other, moving heir faces slowly together maybe for a kiss , before the scene blanked out. And agreed I would also love to see them as an actual power cuple which is why I have hopes for LOK comic books! Like the 2 (3rd in progress) story lines published for ATLA about what happened later with the crew, I would love to see some “what happens next” and more adventures with this crew too, and seeing how they all act as a group, couple, adventures with the changing world, maybe a visit to the fire nation, and maybe even one last face off with the notorious spirit Ko. I feel the series would be a great read and the company would probably profit off the series.

            I got sidetracked, bottom line; the hints were there, it never really felt too rushed (after all we ended from friendship, to a START of a relationship) and its still a great stepping stone for everything.

      • I disagree with that. I saw the build up, as did a great many fans. We still didn’t think it would happen because LGBT relationships just aren’t a thing in children’s media. That they managed to push as far is incredible.

        Plus, I bet if people had seen their same interactions play out with Korra and a male character, there would have been no question that they were ending up together.

        This was *not* queerbaiting.

  15. What korra needs is better writing that ending was a asspull pile of shit

    • you mean the relationship? oh the one that there have been MULTIPLE hints at from season 3 at least? or maybe you should have actually watched the show

    • Oh, you again? Well I do agree better writing will have made things go a lot more smoothly for a lot more people, did you miss the rest of the season… or for that matter, the rest of the series? Because I believe you might have, or just want to join in on the hate to make yourself feel better.

      It’s all right, I gave you your attention. And it’s true: when you do an asspull, you will get a pile of crap. That ending, however, is not.

      • Oh hey Asami I know your dad is dead but let’s go on an ADVENTURE!

        Yeah no.

        I know it’s cute and all to have a relationship and kissy kissy endings.
        But what would have been a better ending.

        Kuviera fires her laser and Korra sees it’s going to hit Asami. She bends to blast and in doing so dies herself. ( Or becomes so weak she dies soon after). This would fulfill Korra’s arc of figureing out what it means to be the Avatar and what her role is, to protect the ones she cares for.
        They have her funeral and we see Asami crying over the grave. There’s the ship.
        Then we get to Tenzin say something about Korra. How she started out rash and un trained, but over time she became an Avatar unlike no other, one who would give her all to save others, she wasn’t perfect, but that made what she accomplished all the more impressive.
        Maybe Bolin could comment about how it feels like hope is gone, to which Tenzin or someone could say ” That’s the thing about hope, even if you think it has died it will always alite a new.”
        Then cut to a shot of a earth kingdom house and the cry of a baby.

        • Psychicllamakiller

          that would’ve been much, much worse – korra’s entire arc this season has been about building herself back up after nearly dying, and having to overcome her physical and mental trauma to get there. it took her 75% of the season to finish healing. to devote all that time to her healing process, to her rising above her near-death experience and clawing her way back to her old self, or something like it, only to have her randomly and arbitrarily killed for realsies in an arbitrary way, just for angst, essentially, would go completely against the theme of the season and korra’s arc and make all the recovery stuff pointless. it’d be a giant “fuck you” to the audience. besides, after all the shit korra went through, she NEEDED a happy ending or the show would’ve just seemed downright sadistic. she already did figure out her role as the avatar, so her dying would’ve had no purpose whatsoever

          also, killing korra and revealing the relationship with asami after her death would be pointlessly shoehorning them into the Tragic Lesbians cliche, and diminish or even invalidate the implication of their relationship

          and we all grieve differently – asami wants a vacation because that would help her deal with what’s happened, and so that’s what korra has provided her. we don’t all isolate ourselves or spend days crying after a personal loss, we all handle death differently and cope with it in different ways

          • And even if they do have romantic feelings for each other, I still see Korra offering Asami that vacation to the Spirit World as a kind gesture to another friend, something to offer after what Asami did to Korra when she was wheelchair bound after the battle with Zaheer. If you are given a chance to go away somewhere after losing someone, as a gesture to help you in the time of grieving, would you take that up? Sure, it’s not always going to work, but when you have someone who is close to you, be it a relative or a friend, they will try to do something nice to help cheer you up after losing someone.

            And like you said, Korra has been through hell and back dealing with all sorts of nonsense, in and out of universe. She is in need of a vacation, be it by herself or with someone she knows. There needs to be some kind of happy ending, even if it’s mandated, otherwise… what would have everything been fighting for be worth if it did end somberly? As I mentioned, better writing could smooth things out, but it couldn’t just been the ending. Had there been more hints, maybe a little more noticeable, then perhaps that could calm some of the hate (you’ll still get those who hate these kind of relationships, so you can’t make everyone happy). And I don’t mean the “in-your-face” hints, just the right subtle hints that we got during the season that… for some, miss out (or refuse to see because Cowhead wants to be like everyone who wants to complain about it). The matter does come with Nick’s S/P and trying to get by that while giving the hints, but what we got is something that I’m perfectly OK with.

            Could we want more? Yes. Does it have to be blatant? Not necessarily. Am I satisfied with the end product? I am.

            In the end, as long as people do talk about it and there’s some positive influence in it, then it’s likely that we could see some more characters like Korra coming in the future. It’ll be a miracle if Nick can pull that off again, but I’m not betting on that.

      • your satisfied with a half ass ending no wonder nick put this pile of shit on web only.

        • I would think it’s for other reasons. If they put the show online for just the ending, then… that’s some psychic crap Nick is pulling. Not to mention that it came back on the air, albeit on Nicktoons in November on Episode 9, so it’s not just online only anymore.

          Got anything else?

  16. Okay, with Sherlock, the creators said that the characters are not sexually attracted to each other.

    But they frequently use Watson being referred to or perceived as gay as a joke. Very unfunny jokes that they keep doing.

    If they wanted no romantic intentions between the two they should have left it at that, instead of constantly having them do those annoying jokes constantly.

    Not to mention how it portrays chinese people, and how sherlock could apparantly tell someone was “gay” without batting an eye. Simply because the character he was anilysing showed stereotypical traits of a gay person, and that because of these traits he was gay.

    Even beyond that Sherlock is pretty meh anyway. Sherlock is unlikeable, the characters are honestly rather dull, beyond Moriarty who is just hamming it up which makes him far more interesting and enjoyable to watch then Sherlocks emotionally constipated personality.

    • Yes that’s how deduction works ” You have similarities to a gay man that means I can defer you are probably gay”.

      Now don’t they HAVE gay characters in the show? At least side characters right? Maybe i’m mistaken there.

      Also Sherlock isn’t suppose to be likeable. He’s an arrogant jerk, but that’s his charm. He’s not being a jerk to you, but to Watson.

  17. Ow, that pun hurt.

    Anyways, the hints and how the relationship was built made it a-okay in my book, and didn’t make it feel like it was just shoe-horned in to get a reaction.
    The only problem I have is that I wish they went a bit further with the hints. Just one step more.
    Like when Korra, Asami and Mako were together on the train, and Korra and Asami were treating Mako like a third wheel. Maybe push it to the point where Asami and Korra give each other some intense looks, or say they need to go to the bathroom together, and Mako hears them arguing or something.

    But all in all, it was well worked in, I think.

  18. Before even viewing the video, I agree, but doubt Nickelodeon would have let them

  19. Great video, but I can’t wait to see what you say about Supernatural now.

  20. It took until 2014 for there to be a canon isexual lead character in a kids show in America. Meanwhile, Japan has just released the anime Yurikuma Arashi, which is essentially a yuri version of AoT with bears (seriously).

  21. I’m a bit iffy on the topic.
    I’m fine with gay characters and gay relationships in media. I was never bothered with it in sailor moon and other stuff. However Korra kinda bugged me. I saw the ‘ship’ between korra and asami as just another fan thing, and i was a little disappointed when it was canon. Mostly because i felt the rug was pulled out from under me when i expect korra to be straight. I think it’s because they built up this run of the mill romance, but then decided to go the alternate route. Surprises and breaking status quo aren’t bad, but doing it in a way that seems out of the blue when something else was built up for such a long time seems like a poor choice on the writers part.

    • That’s the point. According to Bryan Konietzko’s confirmation on Tumblr, they were partially inspired by that Miyazaki quote about how one shouldn’t expect every friendship between a boy and a girl to end up as a relationship. So, they basically realized that there’s sort of a parallel to that statement- tVEhat nobody expects two people of the same sex to end up together, thus Korrasami. Moral of the story: always assume that EVERYBODY IS INTERESTED IN EVERYBODY.

    • Wait, you mean Makorra? That is the thing “built up for such a long time”? No offense but that’s hilarious 😀

  22. >”Rantasmo talks Korrasami, queerbaiting, and the Avatar saga’s controversial conclusion.”

    Oh for the love of…

    JUST BECAUE A BUNCH OF INTERNET COMMENTS WHINE ABOUT IT DOES NOT MAKE IT “CONTROVERSIAL”!!!

    I’ve seen this not only with KorrAsami, but products like Dark Knight Rises, FF13, Titanfall, etc. Basically the argument is the following:

    1. 75-80% of people like something (as seen with user scores or percentages)
    2. However, 20-25% of people don’t
    3. “Hey I know, if I nag on the internet repetitively and am loud enough, we become the majority!
    4. All of the sudden, the internet comments start making something that was basically loved by a grand majority look controversial.
    5. Internet trolls sit back and watch the fireworks blow.

    • CheesecakeSeptember

      “Controversial” = giving rise or likely to give rise to public disagreement.
      So, yes, considering people are STILL talking about this ending debating whether they liked it or not, then it’s Controversial. It does not matter if the majority likes or dislikes something. If there is room for a large public debate, then it is considered controversial.

      …Why does this bother you so much anyway? It’s a word. A WORD. An overused word, yes, but a simple word none the less.

  23. Good Luck Charlie had an episode featured a two-mom couple. Amazing how Disney of all things actually had the balls to put it in there.

  24. re : Sherlock.
    To those able to see that the creators are just placing these long stares between Sherlock and Watson is BBC Sherlock to be fanservice makes sense. The only problem is the SEVERE aversion some fans have to the idea of this only being a tease and ‘not canon’. Especially on Tumblr, the idea that Johnlock =/= Canon is blasphemy. I feel that the way the creators handled Mary/John was really problematic and made Johnlock seem like the more ‘stable’ relationship by comparison. So I’m not really sure if it’s correct to say it’s not queerbaiting on some level.
    It seems more that the creators say one thing, but the show itself ( without the creator’s speech about how ‘Johnlock’ is not going to happen) is different. In the show it does sort of Hint that both men have a strong bond, love each other and will stand by each other through anything. Mary turning out the way she did , did not help. That they made the marriage out to be the bad one while Sherlock seems to be the great support John needed will lead some Johnlock shippers to go “SEE! Sherlock and John are the better relationship. Mary is horrible.’
    So I don’t know.
    As it stands, I probably won’t be watching Season 5. The creators started out with this great show but they go to far out of there way to show that ‘all women lie’ with Mary and ‘The women’, and that’s not a narrative I want to watch.

  25. There are quite a lot of Anime’s which are both Yuri and Yaoi. Just look at Love Stage!! for an example.

    Albeit, not on air, but online and in Manga form.

    But if there was ever to be an same-sex relationship to be on a cartoon show, at least it should not be forced, and at best be written well in character development.

    I think the issue is that many people don’t like forcible scenarios when it comes to same-sex on shows, or in movies but are fine enough to get the gist of something going on between the two early on.

    “Queerbaiting” isn’t necessarily bad, it can give fanfiction writers ideas.

    Lastly though, i think we won’t see a childrens show anytime soon where either the main or even support characters are homosexual.

  26. As I have thought about it, I have ultimately come to a several conclusions: it is a step forward, but it was a wobbly one that made me think that the person walking had some notable problem with it.

    Before I go further, let me introduce psychological concept of the “Triangular Theory of Love” that may be useful to note when talking about these sorts of vague relationships. In it, there are three points (intimacy/liking, commitment, and passion) and each side of it represents a mixture of two points and the center the combination of all three. One of these possible relationships is the mixture of liking and commitment without passion. This one is interesting, generally appearing in the form of either a married couple who have lost passion for each other but still like each other and feel commitment toward each other, but what is of interest is its other form is the “committed friendship” where two people who do have intimate feelings for each other and a notable commitment toward one another but lack any romantic feelings toward each other.

    You mentioned that the relationship sprouted from a friendship, which is very much true, but let’s compare it (with reservations that Nick probably screwed over their ability to make the romantic relationship textual rather than relying on implication and symbolism). In TLA, it was textual that Aang and Katara had romantic feelings for each other well before it was confirmed to be a romantic (if my memory serves me right, it received textual foreshadowing as early as “The Fortuneteller” and textual confirmation that there were passionate feelings for each other in “The Cave of Two Lovers”), which meant that the kiss at the end did not come-out of nowhere, which was what KorrAsami felt like since (from a mostly textual reading anyway, since I tend to avoid symbolism and subtext that isn’t thick enough to be clear as low visibility waters where authorial intent lies), they only showed intimacy and commitment and thus came-off as committed friends to me (which is rather foolish since many writers tend to, accidentally or intentionally, rely upon the fallacy that commitment somehow foreshadows or is exclusively a component of romantic relationships). Since I understand that this does encounter the problem of comparing TLK to TLA, think about the fact that every other romance on that show was textual, but KorrAsami was subtextual (again, I think that blame goes to Nick), but the fact that it was not visible from the text (which is generally what I focus on in consumption of media), the ending didn’t leave a good impression because, step forward or not, it still was unexpected by me since it failed to match the opaqueness that every other romantic relationship on the show and so the reveal that KorrAsami was canon felt unexpected in a “What a twist?” manner.

    With time to think, I realized that there was textual evidence, but was reliant upon an unfortunate implications since the foreshadowing in the textual reading relied upon the inference that commitment is not to be expected outside of romantic relationships (again, Nick is probably to blame).

    As to the idea that Nick put them in a pickle, I agree partially. While I do agree that Nick probably forced them to keep KorrAsami a-textual and limited to a few shots of thick subtext at the end, the way they treated Varrick’s and Zhu Li’s relationship makes me think that it probably would have handled it poorly and still probably would have screwed-up, though at least they would avoid this “commitment = romance” fallacy that Zhu Li and Varrick had since, if I remember correctly, they intended to have KorrAsami since Season Two and thus could have done things.

    I do think the comparison to the relationship of Sherlock Holmes and John Watson is actually pretty interesting since Holmes and Watson were actually used by my psychology professor and friend as a reference point to explain what a committed friendship are in his class, at least with the books. (As a tangent on “Sherlock” and psychology, he tends to have mixed opinions of the show “Sherlock” itself, particularly due to the unfortunate implications of calling Sherlock identifying as a “high-functioning sociopath” when the original character was a go-to example of high-functioning autism, a mental disorder which had the major problem of being mistaken as sociopathy in ye olde 1940’s before it was understood that ASPD and autism don’t really have any connection, this ultimately compounding the problem that the eponymous character of “Sherlock” still comes-off as autistic and not sociopathic).

    Anyway, the comparison between the two duos is interesting because the former, in the original books, only had their friendship questioned in service of drama rather than because of some idea that it is a front for a different kind of relationship, but a modern adaptation has people doubting that it is actually a committed friendship and casually teases interpretation that it is actually a romantic relationship. I think that I would classify this as one step forward for recognizing that gay relationships exist and need to be recognized, but a baby-step backward with society now casting a wider net for its extant problem of thinking that commitment only exists in romantic relationships.

    This was a great episode and I like hearing your thoughts on these topics. Thank you.

  27. If you watch the entire legend of Korra again, you can now probably see the feelings Asami´s feelings from a different point of view. However, that doesn´t help that the ending was as it was. Though I guess you could still ship the characters with whomever you want, I´m still totally okay with the ending to be honest. … Seeing the results of the end though made one thing pop up into my mind… “Now… where´s that one short animated gif of them making out…”

  28. Doing a Supernatural episode soon? If you haven’t seen episode 5 of season 10 (Fan Fiction) I’d recommend it.

  29. I am afraid this may be just another case of Bait And Switch Lesbians. Just go to the Tvtropes site to know what I mean.

  30. I was really disappointed in the apparent backlast to Korra’s ending. I thought it was sweet and fit the characters really well. They had been through a lot together, and the series has always had a pretty fair stance on it’s world being okay with gay characters. I tend to agree that the creators were being restricted by Nickeloden, which should come as little surprise. At least they went as far as they could get away with.

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