SF Debris – Star Trek (TOS): Elaan of Troyus

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24 Comments on "SF Debris – Star Trek (TOS): Elaan of Troyus"

Hussar
Guest

My God Kirk slapped a woman! That is the most evil thing he could have done
He should have been a real man and stood there will she slapped, punched and stabbed him!

And he has a penis! A functioning penis! and he has sex with more than one woman!
Oh how evil

TwistedEllipses
Guest

While I agree that this is normally a situation where you’re justified in responding in kind, don’t forget she is royalty and this is a diplomatic mission…

Mischi
Guest

That’s a classic Kirk, right there.

Bartron
Guest

I can’t be the only one who notices that this entire episode features a woman essentially being sold into sexual slavery. Viewed from that perspective, Elaan becomes an entirely sympathetic character-including her stabbing of the Ambassador.

MightyDavidson
Guest

An arranged marriage equals sexual slavery now? Also, what exactly are they supposed to do, let the two societies engage in a war that could potentially wipe out both societies? Both societies agreed to this arranged marriage to prevent that and it’s all being endangered because Elaan is being a spoiled selfish brat who’s putting her own desires ahead of the wishes, indeed the safety, of her own people.

Viewed from that perspectice, Elaan is perhaps one of the least sympathetic characters in Star Trek.

Bartron
Guest
Look up the wikipedia entry on forced marriage. When one of the parties does not consent, yes, it is in fact sexual slavery. International law is fairly clear on this matter. Technically speaking, the correct term here is “forced” as opposed to “arranged”, as “arranged marriage” is now recognized as requiring the consent of both bride and groom, no matter who arranged it in the first place. To answer your other questions, ending a war is a fine reason to arrange a marriage. It is not at all a justifiable or legally permissible reason to set a woman up to… Read more »
MightyDavidson
Guest
You use the term rape, well when she used the chemical effects of her tears to get lucky with Kirk wasn’t that exactly what she was doing to him? He clearly had no attraction to the woman, sexual or otherwise, prior to that point after all. That alone is enough to make her a deeply unsympathetic character. Then there’s the fact that the possible destruction of her people means absolutely nothing to her. Millions, possibly billions, of her people could die in the war this marriage would avert and she clearly doesn’t give a shit. That makes her deeply unsympathetic.
Bartron
Guest
I concede that if she had wound up having sex with Kirk as a consequence of chemical induction, it would have been rape. I am glad she did not. You’re assuming the deaths of millions means nothing to her. That is dubious. It is much more likely that she knew enough about her own nature to know that (1) their plan was idiotic and a waste of time, or (2) would either result in her being raped repeatedly by her husband for the rest of her life or else would require her to maintain constant control over her husband through… Read more »
Necromancer1991
Guest
Since you brought up the tears things, technically speaking if her tears actually caused her new husband to engage in coitus with her tears by crying at the very idea that she’ll have to spend the rest of her life with this stranger, would she be coercing him even if that was his intent to begin with? It’s one thing to say the victim in some way caused their own rape by wearing “The wrong outfit” or something stupid like that, but it’s another matter entirely when she can literally cause men to have an near-uncontrollable urge to have sex… Read more »
Legene
Guest

I’d say it’s part of her royal duty. If she wants the privileges that go with her position, which seem considerable, then she can put a paper bag over her husband’s head and do it for Troyius. Otherwise, she can give up the Royal Purple Panties of Power and get a job at Space McDonalds, and they rulers of Troyius can pick someone willing.

Legene
Guest

Woops — she’s Elasian, not Troyiun.

Bartron
Guest

Was she given the option of abdicating? ‘Cause I kind of get the feeling that she wasn’t.

Legene
Guest

I don’t think there’s enough in the episode to go by either way, to be honest. It might have been something she was forced into with no way out, in which case she has my sympathies. Of course, all she has to do is flick tears on her new husband to have him under her thumb.

MightyDavidson
Guest

Which the episode makes clear she’s not the least bit adverse to doing. I might actually feel sorry for her, if the episode hadn’t made it clear just how unpleasant she is.

MightyDavidson
Guest

Also, since a war between the two societies could result in them destroying each other her duty to her people should be an issue too. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

Deamon69
Guest

You can’t call a young black male “boy”, what? Damn American hypersensitivity…

thespecialneedsgroup
Guest
You can call him a boy, it’s just terribly rude to refer to him as “boy” as though it were his name. It also has racial implications that are so obvious that you can’t possibly claim that you’re not aware of them. And before you claim that it’s hypersensitivity, it’s no different form the normal standards of polite behavior that you should use when talking to anybody. If you address a stranger by calling him something that implies that you view him as somehow inferior to you, that person has the right to assume that you’re a jackass. If it’s… Read more »
Mischi
Guest
On this issue… I also never heard about this, since I am no american. But please don’t take a racial implication out of thise, since I am happy that I know, now to avoid saying that. I am also sensitive to this subject, but just didn’t know. In german there is this terrible insult: ‘Bimbo’, refering to a black man being a savage, coming out of the jungle. It’s just something you shouldn’t say. But I also head to learn that this notion has a completely different meaning in english. Made me turn my head in a ‘come-again’ manner, the… Read more »
Bartron
Guest

In American usage, “Bimbo” is an insult which roughly means “a stereotypically stupid woman”, or “a woman who has to rely on attractiveness to get by because she has no actual intelligence”. It is highly gender-specific.

It is a school-yard level insult- not a nice thing to say, but no one will kill you for it. It sounds very much like the German version of “Bimbo” is equivalent to our word “nigger”. That is a mortal insult nowadays, and is highly race-specific.

Deamon69
Guest

“It also has racial implications that are so obvious that you can’t possibly claim that you’re not aware of them.”
I can actually claim that, since we didn’t have slaves in my country, we WERE slaves to the Ottoman Empire (Turkey). To a non-American it sounds kind of like calling a female dog a bitch. It’s exactly what the word means, but it’s considered an insult in some other context.

MightyDavidson
Guest
“I concede that if she had wound up having sex with Kirk as a consequence of chemical induction, it would have been rape. I am glad she did not. You’re assuming the deaths of millions means nothing to her. That is dubious. It is much more likely that she knew enough about her own nature to know that (1) their plan was idiotic and a waste of time, or (2) would either result in her being raped repeatedly by her husband for the rest of her life or else would require her to maintain constant control over her husband through… Read more »
trlkly
Guest

He mentioned it.

Toridan
Guest

I’d have stabbed a guy with a hairdo like that too. What the hell is going on with that?

cdrood
Guest
The thing about the slap is that Star Trek is beyond the old sensitivities that went along with the old behaviors regarding gender, race, and religion. Take Uhura not being insulted by Lincoln referring to her as a Negress. In the TNG era, we have a female security chief. There was recently a DS9 review showing Worf being fairly rough in training with Jadzia. Do you think he didn’t punch her? If you accept that the society has truly achieved equality, then responding in kind to actions should be considered to be done from that standpoint, not from ours. It… Read more »
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