Shark Jumping: Beth Loves Joss Whedon

In this latest vlog, Tim & Beth talk about why Beth is a diehard Whedonite … and why Tim only likes Whedon’s work when he’s barely involved in it.

About SharkJumping

Hosts Tim & Beth break down the best, worst and strangest TV shows to find out when they jumped the shark.


  1. MidnightScreeningsman2014

    How could you not like inside out tim its one of the best disney movies since toy story 3*you fiend!!!* Anyway i like joss whedon but on the subject of him i think beth probably saw the avengers (it was a big flick and it spawned a sequel age of ultron). It also is sad that firefly got cancelled cause that show could have gone on to be something huge while i think dollhouse should have got less seasons based on what you guys said (but I’m betting it will be a review of dollhouse and #watchfullhouse Doug Walker did allready and it’s about time you guys did too!)

  2. I’ve had a similar discussion about Joss Whedon with my brother; I’m a huge fan, and him not so much. The most important part of a movie or tv show, or any story in general, for me, is characters, and as you said, Beth, that’s where Joss excels. My brother, on the other hand, is much more interested in great plots and intelligent writing, and as you also said, Joss’s works usually have good plots and solid writing, but they aren’t usually brilliant in either area. I don’t really care that Firefly (one of my favorite shows) and The Avengers (one of my favorite movies) may not have incredible stories or writing, because the characters are just SO GOOD that they make up for it. I can understand how some people might not love Joss Whedon’s work, but I do, and I’m definitely a proud Whedonite! And I can’t wait to hear you talk about that certain, totally-unnamed-thus-far Whedon show in the future…’s the one thing he’s done that I couldn’t really get into. You guys rock! Keep up the good work!

    • That’s a good observation. He tried to address some large themes in Age of Ultron, but they are kind of wrestling which each other. He is at it’s best when he has a simple story and then lets the characters interact. That’s what he can do perfectly, perhaps better than anyone else in the business. But when it comes to larger story-arcs…well, how often did he kill Buffy?

  3. I don’t know what happened to your audio, but a few episodes ago it’s like you changed to a different far worse microphone and it makes listening to the episodes a lot more difficult and painful to the ears. Just thought I should let you know that you should probably have that checked out, and if it was due to intentional change in mic, you should probably change back.

  4. I’ve always had a mixed opinion on Joss Whedon. He’s certainly made some good products but there’s just something about his work that rubs me the wrong way. I think part of it is that he’s definitely focused more on characters than plot but over time the dialogue he gives his characters has grown old for me, I get tired of the constant snark, quips, and how when he tries to make multiple characters sound “smart” they just end up sounding the same. But the biggest problem has always been his fan base, I think that seeing all these people practically get on their knees to worship everything he’s ever put out just rubs me the wrong way. If it wasn’t for them I’d probably like him more than I actually do. Sorry, but the only person I consider it okay to worship as a personal gift to the human race from the universe is the late Sir Terry Pratchett.

  5. I’m – in between with Jos. I love some of his things but I absolutely DESPISE Buffy. I find her whiny and not a good vampire hunter at all. Everyone’s always talking about how she’d kill Edward Cullen. No, she likes the whiny, whimpy, “Oh I’m cursed!” vampires – she’d fuck him.

  6. I agree with Tim about Xandir.
    He’s just “The Funny Guy”trope- but they rrreally insist he’s more than that. Even though he’s not.
    In general,there’s an over-saturation of “The Funny Guy” right now,and everyone acts like they’re original while doing so.lookin at you Marvel.

    When Beth talked about some people not understanding the characters,Tim’s reaction was priceless

  7. I like some of Joss’s stuff, while others are just terrible. Dr. Horrible is one of my least favorite things that I’ve watched ever, while for Avengers I felt like all the quips and snark worked perfectly with the characters.

    I think maybe it’s the same thing as a lot of other great talents, where they really need someone who can constrain them and keep them from just doing whatever they want.

  8. You seem to not understand that the reason Firefly was canceled was because Fox showed the episodes out of order, making it impossible to follow the plot.

    • The show wasn’t making money,that’s what executives care about,because they run a whole company. You know,Real Life 101.

      Lately,I’ve seen alot of childish comments like this- implying big business types judge things in a way fans would.I mean,how far does your head have to be up your ass to think that for even a minute?
      (maybe it’s 12 year olds? but even then you’d think they’d have at least seen jokes about execs in Futurama or something)

      • And you don’t think maybe the episodes being aired out of order could have contributed at all to the low ratings?

      • While it is absolutely true that Firefly was cancelled because it wasn’t making money, it is also true that the show was handled badly.

        It was moved around the schedule. It was preempted multiple times for baseball games. Firefly was difficult to find even if you already knew about it. It never got the chance to grow its audience (i.e. make money).

        Mixing up the episodes didn’t help matter either. In particular, moving the two hour pilot to the end of the run.

  9. I remember watching Firefly when it first came out and thinking it was only okay. However I also remember that they only aired 9 of 13 episodes, they aired them out of order, it was preempted 3 times and changed time slots twice.
    I liked Dr. Horrible especially when you consider the fact he was contractually bared from writing so for fun he used his own money to produce something back in the day when no one would believe you could make back that kind of an investment with YouTube views.
    An is it just me but we’re the two of you a little too relaxed?

  10. Fook Wheed-on= buffy sucks, anhel sucks, his other series are craptastic: dollwheed and that space bull… Avengers 1 rule, and Alien 4 is GREAT… but that’s it.

  11. I followed your channel on twitter just to tell you all to watch full house. I don’t even care about full house.

  12. Hey been a long while. Miss you guys.

    I am definitely a Whedonite, having watched all his shows, some of them twice, as well as reading most of the comic books that he’s written. I’ve memorized the lyrics of every song from “Dr Horrible, sing along blog” and have even read some of the scripts of my favourite episodes of Buffy and Angel. I just love the way the guy talks. Although I am comfortable with not everybody thinking of him as highly as me I still feel the need to defend him.

    Firstly, on the movie “Serenity” bonus feature, Whedon admitted that he doesn’t make shows for people to enjoy, he makes shows for them to love, and if you watch them from the beginning you can’t help but to fall in love with his characters, even the ones originally intended to be hated.

    Comparing shows like Buffy to CSI is somewhat unfair. Yes both shows are procedural however in CSI the characters are shaped around the plot structure, only serving to move the story along, with some characterization sprinkled in. That is Why CSI and all it’s spin offs has characters that are interchangeable.
    Whedon shows however are centered around the characters with the plot built around them (hence the monster of the week being a metaphor for the character’s inner struggles as teenager. A sentiment that isn’t imposed by the viewers but has in fact been verified by Whedon and writers in several interviews BTW).
    Another thing is Xander. He was indeed relevant at the time. If you compare his acting style to the then popular Chandler from “Friends” it’s practically identical. Xander is essentially Chandler if he had found out that Rachael was a super hero. He’s also more than that, often serving as the character shield, the only normal mere human saying the things the audience is thinking.

    Of course comparing Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Dollhouse to today’s TV shows is unfair also. It was a different time then also it was a different target audience. When was the last time there’s been a show where every young adult was watching? Just look at the shows it influenced like: Charmed, Dark Angel, Vampire diaries, Secret circle, Grimm and even the Twilight films. How many shows have emulated it since but failed to achieve the same cult following?

    I’m a Whedonite because he didn’t just make stories, he made characters that to me feel real.

  13. “an allegory for how young men can change after a woman has sex with them”. I’m sorry beth but when you say that outloud, im gonna be real frank, as a dude who’s had sex, that sounds dumb.

  14. I saw….2-3 seasons of Buffy? Then kinda fell off. I enjoyed it, but my enthusiasm wasn’t there to seek out the rest (this was years after it finished airing). I watched some of Angel…about six episodes and said “Oh, this again.” and stopped. I watched a couple episodes of Firefly and said “Oh, this again.”

    That’s pretty much my Whedon experience.

  15. I used to be a fan of Whedon, but he lost me a long time ago. I can’t stand that he’s one of those creators who thinks happiness is boring so if he’s in control of a story long enough he will grind each and every character into the dirt (I will neeeeever forgive him for the person he grabbed out of a hat to be the big bad of Dollhouse; he’s admitted that wasn’t planned at all until a good hunk of the way through it). Many of his characters are also samey as can be, which makes me cringe any time I hear he’s going to be touching a series I’m a fan of because I know characters I like are going to have their own voices eaten up by Whedonism.

  16. I’m gonna get flamed for what I’m about to say, but I’m gonna say it anyway.

    We weren’t ready for a scifi western you say? There are two titles you may want to look into.

    Cowboy Bebop and Trigun.

    Both have the scifi futuristic Western theme to them and both were out long before THAT show existed. You can check the copyright date if you don’t believe me.

    Also, Cowboy Bebop also used the term “Space Cowboy” long before that show as well.

    Random side note, I personally find it annoying that whenever anyone now says or uses the term “shiny” it somehow automatically makes if a reference to that show. No, just no. That word existed before the show existed as well. If someone says, “That necklace is shiny!”, they’re describing the fact the necklaces shines. Even if someone says that their new video game is shiny, that does not automatically make it a reference to that show.

    *lets out breath* Okay, rant over. Wasn’t trying to attack anyone that likes or dislikes Whedon, but I needed to point those things out.

    • fashionroadkill

      Ah yes, because anime is so mainstream that the general audience watches it and that’s why there are so many anime shows on the big four channels.

      Dumbass, just because you can list a show that only a small (in regards to the general American public) niche knows about, it doesn’t discount her point that mainstream America wasn’t ready for a scifi western. In fact, when you list shows with that theme that wouldn’t be known by the majority of TV watchers in this country, you’re proving her point.

      That’s like someone saying the world isn’t ready for a female president and then you going on about how your mom runs the PTA.

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