Star Trek (Ent): Desert Crossing – SF Debris

Opinionated Enterprise Episoe Guide watches Archer and Trip trying to cross the desert, a feat less interesting than Desert Bus somehow.

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18 comments

  1. I’m not sure episodes like this and the High Ground work after 9/11. there are probably some who are forced to do these things or are naive young people who are indoctrinated but on the whole, terrorists are NOT nice people who are forced to do bad things, they are monsters who kill even people of their own faith because they think their god told them to.

    • Your comment kind of assumes that all terrorists are religious terrorists, but other than that I agree.

      • for the ones that are, I also take issue with Chuck’s criticism of Archer’s initial judgement of the terrorists. I don’t think real terrorists have a nice side to fool people with. as I’ve said multiple times, people that are just pure evil DO exist.

        • FeraligatrReturns

          I agreed that it’s awkward when pre 9/11 media shows admitted terrorists in a somewhat sympathetic light, but your second comment is completely nonsensical.

          Even some of the worst scum of the earth, terrorists, serial killers, ect. aren’t constantly thinking of how to do evil every second of every day. They have friends and family and hobbies, and even if you think it’s just an act some of history’s greatest monsters have been very charismatic and great at fooling people.

          So Archer’s “I played a fun game of desert racketball with these people, they can’t be terrorists!” is just as silly as saying “That Adolf Hitler fellow sure loves playing with his dog, he can’t be evil!”

          • s mo, as I have said many times, there are people who only think of doing evil every waking moment. like the first recorded American serial killer who said “I was born with the devil in me.”

            and I admit I stole this scenario from Doctor Who but if Hitler’s scientist developed a virus that would kill all other living things in existence, you really think he wouldn’t use it? I mean, Hitler wanted power and what power is greater then the power to end all life?

          • Um, what?

            First of all, fine, let’s just say for the sake of argument that some people spend every waking moment planning to do evil things. Even then, it’s ridiculous to claim EVERYONE is like that.

            Second, you gave the example of HH Holmes. That just proves my point. Many of Holme’s victims were women he seduced. Evil people often put on a friendly face to fool their victims. So your claim that “I don’t think real terrorists have a nice side to fool people with.”, or Archer claiming that Clancy Brown’s character can’t be a terrorist since he’s such a nice guy, is complete and utter bullshit.

            Third, you’re trying to compare a fictional super villain with a real life genocidal dictator. I don’t think for an instant that Hitler, who spent all that time gaining territory and trying to build up his “master race”, would then throw it all away based on the logic of “I want power, killing everyone ever including my own people is power, therefore I must do that.” That’s a very simplistic understanding of Hitler’s motivation.

            Bottom line, people are not comic book characters. It’s perfectly possible for someone like Clancy Brown’s character to be friendly and neighborly in some situations, and then be a monster who kills civilians in other situations. And even if for some stupid reason you don’t believe that, you should at least be willing to believe that he’s capable of ACTING friendly to fool people.

          • I never said everyone is pure evil but it’s dishonest and even dangerous to say NO ONE is pure evil. a lot of atrocities in history happened at least partly because people on the outside couldn’t believe anyone could be that evil.

            and Hitler didn’t really care about creating a Master Race, as proven by him killing his own loyalist followers towards the end.

          • FeraligatrReturns

            I meant “everyone” as in “every villain”.

            And him killing his own followers was basically him rage quitting/blaming them for failing him.

          • that still shows that Hitler didn’t really care about anyone but himself.

            and like I said, it’s dangerous to say that everyone has good in them.

        • Freedom Fighters do exist and have been know to use terror as a weapon.
          BUT
          They are NOT Terrorists – This is an old argument that ignores the differences and conflates the two different things as one.

          Guerrilla Tactics do not = Terrorism! Especially when one force is overwhelmingly superior to the other – Once you add in “civilian casualties” is when you start moving into “Terrorism” but even then there are cases where the line is ethereal such as when a Civilian puts themselves into the line of fire.

          Yes we can look at these episodes/shows that have 40 minutes to an hour to tell a story with a beginning, middle and end and go “but what happens afterwards” and “He only heard one side of the story” but until the show itself goes back and shows us the consequences we can’t really do anything other than assume that Archer got the right side of the story and these men really were fighting for just reasons.

          As for the bringing up of SJW Politics again – Yes, the unfortunate implications can be read into it BUT SHOULD THEY BE!?! Or are you ascribing malice or even just ignorance to pure co-incidence?
          Worse….Are you looking at the past through the lenses of the present?
          Saudi Arabian Sheikhs are generally pretty light-skinned.
          Saddam Hussein could easily have passed for Western European. {Without needing makeup!}.
          As could Mahmoud Ahmadinejad!
          Stop bringing Colour into it – By doing so you are actually assuming that only dark skinned people can live in Deserts or be on the wrong side of inequalities!

          Simple two part question – Should the makers of Star Trek have been forced to use Middle Eastern Actors {who actually LOOK Middle Eastern!} to play these minor roles and extras? Wouldn’t that also be “Racist”?

          • “Yes we can look at these episodes/shows that have 40 minutes to an hour to tell a story with a beginning, middle and end and go “but what happens afterwards” and “He only heard one side of the story” but until the show itself goes back and shows us the consequences we can’t really do anything other than assume that Archer got the right side of the story and these men really were fighting for just reasons.”

            I very much disagree with this, because it sounds a lot like “He’s the main character, therefore we should assume he did the right thing”.

            Also, again, you’re the guy who said it was “SJW propaganda” when Chuck made a couple of incest jokes, so I’m more inclined to think that you’re reading too much into things than to think Chuck is.

            I will give you this though: I agree with you that it could come across as stereotypical if all the humans in the desert were middle eastern.

            However, I kind of agree with Chuck that it comes off poorly that Archer instantly believes it when he’s told a bunch of aliens are terrorists, but is instantly skeptical when he’s told a bunch of humans are terrorists.

          • However, I kind of agree with Chuck that it comes off poorly that Archer instantly believes it when he’s told a bunch of aliens are terrorists, but is instantly skeptical when he’s told a bunch of humans are terrorists.

            Really? Why? – Archer is from an era where Humanity has come together – He doesn’t know about what’s going on today, What he does remember is the fictional “Eugenics Wars”.
            He has a “naivety” yes born of the Federation’s insistence on the inherent goodness of Humanity {ALL Humanity btw} AND his knowledge of the Suliban in particular was that they were a genetically engineered species who wanted the destruction of the Human Race – At that point he’s entitled to a little skepticism!!!

            Note that Archer also very specifically sides with the Andoorians against the Vulcans when it’s clear the Vulcans {allies} are in the wrong!

            P.S. As for those “incest jokes” That was an example of the hypocrisy of the Left!
            Why is it ok to stereotype one group of people but not another?

          • FeraligatrReturns

            You say “naivety” and “skepticism”, but in the end it’s just another way to say Archer had a prejudice. (He literally “pre judged” them.) And it’s funny you mention Archer and the Vulcans since frankly half the time it seems like he blames Vulcans for all his problems.

            “P.S. As for those “incest jokes” That was an example of the hypocrisy of the Left!
            Why is it ok to stereotype one group of people but not another?”

            That’s not what you said at all in your original comment, you just ranted that Chuck was reading too much into things. You never said anything hypocrisy or stereotypes.

            Also it’s not like Chuck was making Inbred Southerner jokes, he was mocking the writing and the unintentional subtext.

          • pretty sure protagonist centered morality can work here since, if the show never brings up any fallow up to this story, we have no reason to think he backed the wrong side.

            like if the creators of Doctor Who never made Planet of the Ood, we could assume the Ood really were barely sapient and enjoyed being a race of servants.

          • FeraligatrReturns

            My problem with that is that you could use the same logic to say Archer was right in not giving the cure to the Valakians, or Janeway putting Tom and Harry at risk because she didn’t want to wipe the Fairhaven program. You can justify any of the heroe’s questionable decisions if you just say “well we never saw the consequences, so it must have all worked out alright”.

          • the examples you gave are different because in those cases, we do know what the consequences would be for sure even if it wasn’t shown. we don’t know for sure witch side is the good guys in this conflict so can just assume the side Archer backed were the good guys.

  2. Nice to see the Voice of Lex Luthor and Brother Justin!

    The always under-rated Clancy Brown. One of the best sinister voices of all time…right next to James Earl Jones’ Vader!

  3. “If I go crazy, will you still call me Superman?”

    Dude, if you’re expecting me to call you Superman, then I think the premise is already a foregone conclusion.

    Clancy Brown – Somehow, I can’t help but tie that back into the opening music. Seems this guy always seems to have plenty of Kryptonite lying around.

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