Star Trek Into Darkness – Pros n’ Cons – Blockbuster Buster

After much debate ERod weighs the Good elements and Bad Elements of the Latest installment of The Star Trek Saga, Into Darkness.

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61 comments

  1. Into Darkness is a merging of Space Seed and Wrath of Khan.

    • THANK YOU! Every one I talk is like “oh it’s a remake of Wrath of Khan.” And I have to go “NO! In the original series, there was an episode called Space Seed. Space Seed was the prequel to Wrath of Khan. If it’s a remake of anything, it’s a remake of Space Seed, but it’s more both of them put together than anything.”

  2. I like this movie too. I’ve never seen Wrath of Khan, but making such an analogy is truly unfair. The movie should be good on its own merits and not just based on its legacy.

    • How do you know it’s unfair if you HAVEN’T SEEN THE ORIGINAL MOVIE????????It literally lifts lines from the original.Steals scenes from the original.It is so unoriginal it’s almost criminal!It’s sad because the cast deserved better and JJ Abrams can do better(and he probably will with SW:TFA).Who can’t do better is screenwriter Roberto Orci because he’s an no-talent hack!

      Watch Wrath of Khan and then come back to the adult discussion.

  3. I like this movie, but that “Khan” was fucking stupid.

    Anyway, I’m thinking you should do a TNG/DS9 casting couch.

    I, myself, have an idea for a movie in that period, called “Star Trek: Dominion”, about, obviously, the two crews fighting the Dominion.

  4. The problem I have with hole “unfair to compare” argument is that by purposefully making it a remake, they are forcing a comparison. A film cannot be judged on its own merits alone if it is advertising that it is using another films story. In such a case, Into Darkness, at least to me, goes from a fun, somewhat mindless action blockbuster to a rather insulting gutting of an introspecting and philosophical classic.

    • Was it a remake? I think people are oversensitive here..

      • It wasn’t a remake… technically. But apart from using scenes that pay ‘hommage’ it also used all the keywords that were succesfull in the old installment.
        Its like, I make this new Sci Fi movie. The hero is called Luke Skywalker, the villain is a guy named Darth Vader. The title: uuhm ‘Into Star Wars’. Hey, Luke and Darth will fight each other with lightsabers… but ITS NOT A REMAKE!
        I really like Benedict Cumberbatch and the story wasn’t all that bad… but why did it have to be Kahn? How did it improve the story? Well, it certainly improved the box office results since.. IDIOTS ONLY WALK INTO THEATRES IF THEY ALREADY KNOW (some of) THE SHIT THAT IS SHOWN!! Thanks, guys.

  5. I liked this film; (potential spoiler) you just know the reason they put Khan on ice at the end was so that the film makers could play with his character again in future, like Erod said he’s the most iconic antagonist of the franchise even with his limited appearances, and keeping him alive gives them the chance to flesh him out and explore his character more in a future film, also just throwing this out there how cool would it be if they thaw him out in the Next Generation timeline and you can see him interact with that crew?

  6. For the Character “Cons” section, you should have spelled it “KHANS”.

    Here is my position on Khan, the character that appeared in that movie was not Khan. And there is no narrative reason to make him Khan. Just have him be Agent Bill Whoever, a section 31 operative who has gone crazy from genetic manipulation.

  7. Why Into Darkness is more Space Seed than Wrath of Khan?
    1. It takes place more than 20 years since Wrath of Khan and a few years earlier than Space Seed.
    2. Instead of the fight between Kirk and Khan we have Khan and Spock.
    3. Khan’s crew was not in Into Darkness.
    4. Kirk died and resurrected in the film.
    5. Khan did not die which leaves a chance for his return.

    What needs to be explored in the third film will the new Kirk change cause of his death and resurrection and become more like Kirk Prime?

  8. Um. I think I need to point one thing out here. The JJ films take place in a new, parallel, timeline.
    So technically Into Darkness isn’t a remake yet.. at the same time it is…

    ….
    Multiverse Theory is confusing.

    I’m no scientist but to put it as simply as I can both the original series and the JJ films exist but separate from each other but follow a similar path.

  9. A genetically-enhanced super genius with DELUSIONS of grandeur, you say?

  10. MidnightScreeningsman2014

    Yeah this was one of the first star trek shows I was exposed to and to be honest I want to see more of it the tv series,movies,the old movies,and the tv series and I’ll probably watch the new one that’s coming to CBS as well as sf debris’s reviews for the series and movies and someday I might see the older tv series. Yeah I also had some complaints about the movie like yeah that bra and undies scene was dumb and horrible and the reveal was stupid but tbh I haven’t seen the original 2009 film and maybe will but at that time I liked the film and didn’t realize it had the same sequences as the 2009 film(so there yeah go)!!!

  11. Don’t you mean Pros & Khans?

  12. Yeah, not going to be very kind to this film. Hell, I can sum up my feelings toward Star Trek: Into Homage with one scene – the one where Khan tells Kirk that he’s Khan, and the look on Kirk’s blank face is “And?”

    This film had good potential, but it was mostly a wink-wink, nudge-nudge film trying to hit all the nostalgia notes and action beats without making it into a memorable story. There’s no real character growth, there’s no real attempts to maintain internal plot logic, and much of the time it doesn’t feel like Star Trek, just a pretender trying to cash in on all that lovely blockbuster money out there. I was willing to go along with the reboot series at first, but this film killed that desire.

  13. I think the problem was that they relied too much on general pop culture knowledge of Star Trek and didn’t do much to build the world on their own.

    The reveal of Khan doesn’t mean anything if people didn’t know about Wrath of Khan since they didn’t establish the Eugenics War and the fact that Khan was a dictator who took over a huge chunk of the earth. He didn’t have to be Khan at all. He could have just been a genetically modified villain. In fact, if he wasn’t Khan, they might have been able to make him a more complex character since he wasn’t just doing bad things because he was evil, he had an understandable motivation for going after Starfleet. They could have made him much more of a grey character rather than just a pure villain.

    It’s the same thing with the Klingons. They say that the Klingons are a threat but they don’t show the Klingons doing anything bad. Starfleet is portrayed more as villains since they forced Khan to build weapons to use against the Klingons, they sent Kirk to secretly bomb the Klingon homeworld, and Khan slaughtered a bunch of Klingon soldiers. Based on this movie, the Klingons would be perfectly justified to hate the Federation and want to go to war.

    • I agree about them using too much of established pop-culture knowledge.

      While having such a long running and iconic franchise to draw from is an advantage the film makers should draw upon, it can also become a crutch.

      Watching this film in the theaters I purposely made sure I knew very little about it going in…and I was very excited to see the Klingons and got excited that it was going to chronicle the start of a major Klingon conflict…It would be on opportunity to establish a new Klingon nemesis… but it ended up being a very loose re-imagining of Wrath of Khan instead.

      Overall, I enjoyed the film, but I didn’t love it.

  14. I think the Star Trek Reboot Franchise is the most derivative pieces of tripe any studio can put out. The Star Trek Franchise has always stood out, its been unique and it has always had a message to convey. Granted that not all of the movies were the best, but they were still unique. The reboots are all surface and no substance.

  15. As blasphemous as it may sound, I prefer Cumberbatch as Khan. Why? Well, in Wrath of Khan, I feared for the Enterprise crew. I was worried that they would die. In the new movie, I feared for myself. I thought after he killed the Enterprise, Cumberbatch’s Khan was going to reach through the movie screen and kill me and the rest of the world next. That was the impression his character gave me. He was terrifying.

    I didn’t want them to do Wrath of Khan, but if they were going to do it, they would have to have done it now when the crew was new. So that’s okay. The only part of the film that I truly hate (aside from the underwear scene), was the Kirk dying scene, including the Khan yell part. We knew they weren’t going to leave Kirk dead. We knew that. So there was no point in doing that. But even with that, the yell…. no. Just no.

    The thing is, that yell could’ve worked elsewhere. We see Khan on the ground grabbing that coat or whatever. Then Spock beams down. He sees Khan. NOW he yells KHAN! (Cause he’s emotional right now and so not logical). Khan, turns, sees him, starts running… the chase is on. That’s it. No stupid yell on the ship.

    I do hope they acknowledge the passing of original Spock during the next movie. Like Spock gets a message from the Vulcan colony that Senior has died.

  16. I like to think the reboot takes place in the mirror universe and Spock hasn’t grown his goatee yet.

  17. Aw, c’mon! Carol in her underwear is just showing Kirk being the sexist pig HE HAS ALWAYS BEEN. Any fan of the original series can attest to this, but suddenly, it’s “offensive”? Jesus…

    It’s like you want Kirk to not be Kirk. Get the fuck over it, you overly-sensitive babies!

    • No. He really wasn’t. TOS-Kirk never slept around just for the hell of it and he certainly wasn’t sexist. He always tried/wanted to establish an actual relationship with women he slept with and overall respected women as people.

      This whole “Captain Kirk is sexist” thing is based more on exaggerated parodies than anything that happen in actual franchise.

      • Do people forget that it isn’t this same Kirk like in TOS? In previous movie it was well established that after his father died prematurely Kirk instead becoming respected fleet officer as a father, he become menace instead. It was pure coincidence (aka McCoy) what push him in star fleet carrier and as result put him together.. as result Kirk here is far more hotheaded then he was before.

        As for him being sexist.. in original Star Trek pilot captain of enterprise is Pike instead Kirk, and he in fact act somehow sexist. I think they try address problem of that times (60’ties) but they failed. They didn’t make that mistake later anyway.

  18. This player is a fucking joke

    • Yeah, I’m going to have a fucking aneurysm If this video doesn’t play or stops at the 7/8th mark again. I think it’s my ISP, WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING COMCAST

  19. “The most famous and prominent Star Trek villain of all time”? Obviously. But let me ask you, who’s number 2? Who is the SECOND most prominent Star Trek villain of all time? Is there ANYbody else the average, casual Star Trek viewer would even be able to name? Because I can’t think of one… particularly from the TOS era. In fact the only one who even deserves a mention is Harry Mudd for appearing twice. And the idea of bringing his character back as a bad-ass villain would be hilariously stupid.

    • Funny you should mention Harry Mudd.
      The ship they used to get to Qo’noS was confiscated during what they called “The Mudd Incident”.

    • I can certainly think of one that stands out above the rest, and that is Gul Dukat from Deep Space Nine. The Cardassian had seven seasons to become a detailed, in depth villain who went through several stages of growth before finally falling into a mad and delusional state.

      In fact I would say that Deep Space Nine has the best array of villainous characters in all of Star Trek. On top of Gul Dukat there is the Vorta Weyoun, the female changeling, and Kai Winn Adami.

      Really though, Dukat is something else. A complex and developed person.

  20. Star Trek Into Darkness is indeed a fun and enjoyable film. But it was disappointing on some levels for me. For one, the advertisement was false about what the entire film was about. Second, the villain of Kahn isn’t the main villain from beginning to end and that bugs me. Third, with the movie making the Enterprise a police force takes away the entertaining qualities of the first film. It fills forced and unneeded. And fourth, the movie has unnecessary plot elements that are either rushed or ignored by the end of the film.

    • What people forget is that Starfleet IS a military.. just they are participating in many civilian operations like explorations, especially as part of Federation what wasn’t only human creation. In fact even original series mention that Starfleet have identity crisis as they know what they are (because humans aren’t stupid) just also know why they pretend to be something else as humans didn’t want political problems (they didn’t want use force as argument instead diplomacy). In fact even in original series there was incident with battleship, but it was considered as failure. After some time Starfleet learn how to balance own two natures and officially nominate tactic (military) officers as captains and later one when they start deal with threat what demand military they start use also designated military ships of Defiant class.. in that point of time everyone respected Starfleet anyway and everyone know that they would not overuse force.

  21. Magic blood.

    That is all.

  22. To be honest, I had a fun time with Into Darkness at the theaters… that being said, I haven’t felt the urge to rewatch it since and it didn’t leave much of an impression on me. I actually think that drawing parallels to Wrath of Khan/Space Seed was detrimental to the film. The thing that I LOVED about Star Trek: 2009 was that it completely changed up the game. From the very first scene they announced that everything we thought we knew might not happen, and that made things exciting. But, as soon as they introduced Khan I knew exactly where the plot was going. I knew that someone was going to get locked in and we’d have the “needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few” line. I knew that we’d have that iconic “KHAN!!” shout. What should have been fresh became predictable.

    It seemed like they shoe-horned a classic, comfortable plot into a universe that is already very different from the one in the original series. There was such a huge sandbox for the writers to play in, and they just didn’t seize the opportunity. (Like, here’s a rough plot that I came up with in five minutes: The Enterprise is sent on a mission to scout out unexplored planets and bring back supplies for the construction of New Vulcan. However, once they arrive with the cargo they discover that the Vulcans were studying bits of Nero’s ship, as it’s Romulan construction makes it unique, and that someone has stolen their findings…that’s some kind of weapon McGuffin. Then The Enterprise has to give chase and find the thieves before they can sell or use the data to build the device. Insert Benedict Cumberbatch as some evil megalomaniac who has a huge grudge against the Federation but isn’t Khan, and boom! there’s your movie. They could even have forshadowed Khan showing up in later films.)

    I mean, why bother making an AU if you’re not going to run with it?

  23. Welp, I think I punched a hole in my wall again, this shit needs to stop where Comcast effectively blocks a certain streaming site. I waited 2 FUCKING HOURS to watch the last 4 minutes of ERod’s video and the entire time I sat around and waited for the video to start loading while simultaneously watching videos on youtube without a hitch.

  24. This movie is so oddish.
    On one hand it’s a reboot, on the other hand a remake aswell as an reimagination of Wrath of Khan and on yet another hand the plot is still very similiar to the first reboot movie. It’s too many things at once and all of them work against eachother.

    Benedict Cumberbatch as Khan was good from an acting stand point. But couldn’t they send in the tanning booth for a few hours? I mean, the name Khan Noonien Singh already implies an south/east asian mixed ethnic heritage. And even though Ricardo Montalban was Hispanic he at least looked the part what can’t be said about Cumberbatch.

    JJ Abrams really is a bit problematic when he takes on long standing franchises. He just crams iconic stuff in the movies and makes them a fanservice fest with no intent on actually telling new stories in said franchise. I’m really worried about Star Wars 7 since it might turn into the same. Lucas is involved with the script but he’s only a terrible writer when he does stuff alone, wich is not the case here, all the while Abrams screws up even if he has co writers.

  25. I’m honestly shocked that you didn’t call it “Pros n’ KHAAAAAAAAAANS.”

    And sadly I’m afraid that the Abrams franchise will wreck the forthcoming new ST series, creating a dumb action series in the reboot side-universe rather than the prime ST one.

  26. I thought the original reboot was a brilliant plan as far as finding a way to bring back and recast the original characters without being chained to the established continuity, which, to me, was the biggest stumbling block to making a new TOS movie.

    But this… mess has all the flaws of the first movie (LENS FLARE! Incomprehensible action!) tied to the old stumbling block of the original series having already done it and done it better (Khan! The Kirk/Spock death scene done not between lifelong friends but two people who often don’t even like each other. That ending hurt it was so bad in the new context.)

    As for color blind casting, sometimes it’s a good thing and sometimes it’s a bad thing. I think in this case it was a bad thing: Khan is a representative of a people known to be brown. Recasting the idealized superman as a white guy is disturbing. For color blind casting or race changes I think have worked, check out the Flash’s Iris West. No reason I can think of that she would have to be white, and changing race actually helps to make her visually distinct from traditional depictions of Lois Lane, who is the first person I think of when the words comic and reporter go together, so she doesn’t come off as a clone. I’m less fond of Supergirl’s Jimmy Olsen, but when I reflect on that, I think it’s less the race switch or actor and more the entire writing of the character switch. Aside from the fact that I usually think of Jimmy as a freckled redhead, I also never think of him as suave, which is the first word that comes to mind for Supergirl’s Jimmy. I digress.

    My overall point is that Into Darkness was a mistake. The timing was wrong, the casting was wrong, and oh, yeah, it needed more Bones to balance the Kirk/Spock dynamic.

  27. Be sure to go to the end of this review (for the song!)

  28. I’m a massive stark trek fan and I love them all….

  29. I think it’s a good movie. Though not a great one. I think mainly the last act is very restrained with having to recycle beats from Wrath of Kahn like the ships standoff and the scene of the reactor. Also lastly, it didn’t had much point the chase, since Kahn had already lost and while the resurrection blood may have given it purpose it made the scene in the reactor weaker.

    I like seeing it but, I’ll have like it more if it didn’t rely too much pandering to the old stuff. Since if anything Hollywood has been lacking is new stories to tell and use those high budget effects. But at the same time I know people like what’s familiar. Better good for known than bad to meet.

  30. I didn’t really see it as remake of Wraith Of Khan The stories are so far different. This is a point in their history way earlier then Khan takes place in. Yes it takes elements of Khan toward its ending but thats it. There was no way to they were going to do that with Chris Pine anyway. If you didn’t see what was happening coming a mile away then its your own fault.
    I really enjoyed this movie. I thought the hate was unjust in some areas and maybe in others overstated. Was it terrible movie some fans try to make it out to be? No! Again its not fair to compare it as remake to Wraith of Khan as its not remake of it.

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